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Can Some Please Explain What Is Going On In This Video


T_Singh
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i just saw this video and read some comments above about the state of 'mast'.

I have seen this before kind of a situation, maybe in a different intensity and nature, developing before in sikh jathas such as akj and the Dodra. This is not just confined to sikhs, you get this kind of activity in other religous groups among christians, i.e the pentecostal/charismatic church, among muslims, i.e the dervishes circle, Subud, and hindus e.g hare krsna.

Basically at the root of such activity there are four elements that come together i.e;

First, a psychological belief catches on, that in the presence of a certain spiritual/religous personality the power of God starts 'jumping'/gets activated/becomes alive within all persons sitting or praying or standing in his presence, and that, that power, manifests itself through all sorts of physical movements etc. Once you have bought into this belief, you are psychologically programmed for such movements to be triggered in that person's presence. Of course if you are one of the persons in that crowd, you would refute this and say you actually are being made to move by a power within you. The problem is what is really from God, and what is from our own mind, can seem very alike to a spiritually immature person.The role of a truly spiritual person is to help people transform their lifes to be sant-sipahees, to get up at amritvela and do simran,nitnem, kirtan etc, and to wanna share Sikhi with every person they meet irrespective of race, gender and colour. A truly spiritual person is a servant of society constantly empowering people, avoiding attention to himself, and certainly not giving anyone an impression even subtely that things 'happen' in his presence. A truly spiritual person focuses on the grace of God changing a person rather than on a specific spiritual exercise done especially in the absence of a wider life changing transformation from manmukh to gurmukh led by gurmat and gurgyan.

Secondly, there is a belief among many, that naam and naam chanting is so powerful that it causes all sorts of body movements from gentle to jerky or violent. Once you have bought into this belief, every time you chant, a psychological trigger is set off making you shake and move. This becomes a habit after a while.

The true power of naam in fact is something we cannot even comprehend. Gurbani says naam ke dhareh khand brahmand, naam ke dhareh sagle akaar, i.e through naam power, universes , galaxies and skies and celestial bodies are created. Naam power already is the life energy in all things , making even a blade of grass sway with the wind. Simran is not about further trying to experience this naam power 'moving ' you, its about helping you to connect, understand and see this hidden naam power within us and be Its servants, submitting to the Will of naam power/God within us.

The dhyan/ attention during naam simran shouldnt be to any movements but to an inward deep surrender to Infinity/Reality within. The true power of a religious experience is not so much as in outer body movements, as in to a surrender within, that allows God to take reign of our lives, our souls, consciousness and to isolate, neutralise and crush our ego and allow true anand -spritual bliss to flood our into our lifes. Thats the true masti or state of intoxication we need to strife for that is a 24/7 experience , not confined to one spritual exercise like going to the gym hehe.

True masti is when your spark plugs are now connected to Gurujee's engine not to the engine of maya. Then from the living dead, you have risen to be totally aware of THE presence within you and your entire being is enraptured/soaked/totally moist with God's endless Ecstasy that you experience as drip , drip , drip of amrit pouring into your soul, i.e as Gurbani says ''jhim jhim varseh amrit dhara , man piveh sunh shabad tumara''. In such a state you appear completely normal as can be amongst humans , but your dhyan is completely at Gurujee's Charan Kamal 24/7.

Thirdly and fourthly, two other psychological factors become engaged, activated and intertwined in such a display of physical jerks and movements. One is the natural human propensity to dance and shake, i.e as gurbani says 'nechn kudn man ka chao', i.e the mind's pleasure is to dance and anything that can provoke that, is easy game. Secondly, within ourselves we hold on to all sorts of emotions, fears, traumas, feelings and thoughts. In a free for all situation, where within a group, each is free to express themselves physically, all these inner fears, emotions, feelings etc tend to express themselves in outer movements e.g of body movements, crying, raised voice during simran, etc etc, akin to taking the valve off a pressure cooker or boiler. In fact in some places in the world, e.g Japan you have therapy sessions where people are put in a big room and allowed to scream, shout, sing, cry, dance etc according to how their psychological inner wants to release its pent up emotions. Even in the UK, you have in most cities whats called 5 Rythms Dancing to the same effect.

Instead of all this hype and drama, the focus should be on consistency of faith in Gurujee, to awake every single morning and do simran and nitnem , and to understand Gurbani and let our thoughts, words and actions be led by the gyan of Gurbani. I find the life of Bhai Sahib Bhai Veer Singh very inspiring because thats what he did and he allowed the masti and naam power of God channel itself through his singular life to be one of the greatest and most influential poets, writers, reformers, scholars, and preachers of Sikhism while yet being amongst the most humble, holy, and non assuming of men. Gurbani says 'belharee gur apne deohari sadh //, jinh manas te devte kieh , kret na lagi vaar''. Consistency of amritvela naam simran , together with dan and ishnan will make God's grace shine on you and grant you in time, the deepest, most profound and mystical of frequent spiritual experiences amongst other things, i.e miri and piri.

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Hopefully one of the inevitable casualties of this practice will sue this Tarmala guy for giving him brain damage from all that violent headbanging.

In a few years, most of these peeps will look and talk like Mohammed Ali after he was diagnosed with Parkinsons.

K.

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Hopefully one of the inevitable casualties of this practice will sue this Tarmala guy for giving him brain damage from all that violent headbanging.

In a few years, most of these peeps will look and talk like Mohammed Ali after he was diagnosed with Parkinsons.

K.

That was uncalled for. Leave Mohammed Ali out of this.

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That was uncalled for. Leave Mohammed Ali out of this.

No offence to Cassius Clay was meant. The point is that Mohammed Ali was diagnosed with Parkinsons as a result of suffering continual blows to the head over a long period. These Tarmala guys will end up in the same position for the same physical reasons.

K.

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isnt it similar to what happens at rensbhais, i have personally seen similar body movements at rensbais.

on a side not, yeh tarmala is dodgy, check his website and his visit to darbaar sahib to check his following out

you mean this here?

http://www.baani.net/sikh_videos/278/akj-annual-samagam-21-bhai-harpreet-singh-ji-toronto

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1. humkire's post above analysed the whole situation in minute detail very well.

2. As for akj, again, benti please don't go the Tarmala way.

I think there was a post saying that moving your head from side to side is not something that used to be done in that jatha (even if it's much less than what Tarmala is doing). So if you're associated with akj, please don't start doing something which is a fad.

The best way to do bhagti is to close off the outer senses, and go inward:

ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥

Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,

ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥

come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=124&L=9&id=5066

Don't move your body. The body has nothing to do with inner bhagti. Inner bhagti is done with the surti:

ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ ॥

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=943&g=1&h=0&r=0&t=1&p=0&k=1

The Word is the Guru, and the surti (of the soul) is a disciple of the sound (of the word). In practical terms, it means that when the Word is spoken, listen to the sound of the Word with your surti; your surti will merge into the Word.

Note how there's nothing about the body. The body is not meant to do bhagti. The surti is meant to do bhagti.

Moving your head in beat with the kirtan is not as fulfulling as moving your soul.

Does anybody with the Akj want to come on and either defend or speak against bodily movement as a means of inner bhagti?

3. As humkire has analysed the bodily movements phenomenon as a psychological phenomenon, we have to keep in mind that attacks and negative approaches will not work to dissuade people of such notions.

Only with humility can you break through to someone.

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Akhand Keertani Jatha does not tell you to or teach you to Japp Naam like this in the video. The method of Japping Naam is taught from the Punj as any other Amrith Sanchaar. The post made by Khalistan_Zindabad is false if you have seen one or two persons in a Rehinsubaaee Keertan do not attempt to say that this is what the whole Jatha practice. I am not sure where you get your information in regards to Akhand Keertani Jatha however over the years I have seen post from you always looking for one way or another to bad mouth Akhand Keertani Jatha, whether here or previously on tapoban.org. Anyway We all know you are affiliated with Taksaal, how about keeping ekta between the two groups despite certain difference, I'd rather not mention too much about Jathas that is going off the topic.

I can certainly say that Akhand Keertani Jatha DOES NOT teach or believe in moving your body the way in this video, yes at times you may have seen people in sangath rehainsubaees moving but Not to that extent and neither does anybody know if they are affliated to Akhand Keertani Jatha. They maybe affliated to Taksaal, Nishkam or anyother Jatha. I personally knew a person affliated to Taksaal who would move to Keertan, it doesnt mean that Akhand Keertani Jatha taught the person this. If you have done sangath and seen of many of the elders in UK you will see that and know Akhand Keertani Jatha does not at all promote or encourage this behaviour. I put began this post, this may show that being a member of Akhand Keertani Jatha I myself found such behaviour in Guru sahib Darbar shocking.

I hope this helps a little/ and have not offended anyone.

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Bhai Sahib Jeoo, alot have thins hve changed since the time of bhai sahib bhai randheer singh jee, the jatha didnt used to do simran in kirtan, used to beleive in sampooran dasm granth sahib jee aswell.

The post wasnt intended anyway to cuss the jatha, im sorry if it seemed like that, its just its funny how its ok for akj to move head becasue we they they are getting rass of naam etc and everyone agrees, buts whats to say these people are not getting rass aswell.

(however tarmala is dodgy, so dont think im agreeing with him - just making a point)

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