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Why Do Some Sikhs Dismiss The Sikh Call For Independence From India

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Excellent question well some sikhs know about it and are simply indeniable they think we are all Indian and should just get along and that 1984 was just a bad moment in the country's history and we should move on from that i have one person i know that thinks that and also the PM of India thinks that way as well. I think most sikhs that have cut there hair or drink or eat meat consider themselves Indain first and Sikh second that is probably the reason why they dismissing the call for independence from India because it does not suite there life style. I think also alot of sikhs do alot of hindu rituals following caste system, horoscopes, pooja and other stuff that is another reason they dismiss the call for independence from India.

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I don't really know why we want khalistan, what do we hope to achive from it? Sorry if that has offended anyone, but i'm sure there are many youngsters who don't know either so please kindly educate me on the issue.

At the risk of sounding a total cynic..............

I personally think having Khalistan will do more damage than good. Of all the religions in the world sikhs are the best at fighting amongst themselves! We want to escape the corrupt indian government and police officers....how often do we hear about corruption in the gurdwara's commitees etc, Most of the Punjab police officers are mostly sikh and that hasn't stopped them being corrupt.

If it's about being able to pass laws to ban drinking, smoking..........that in princple is great but i can imagine it would still go on behing closed doors, as panjabi's are known for being the biggest drinkers (after the irish).

I also don't agree with segregating our religion off, we are one of the only religions in the world that don't actively go out and convert people, so i think its good for sikhs to be integrated into other different societys so people can learn about out religion. I give lifts to people at work and they always listen to kirtan in my car without complaint. One of the people i have given a lift to is muslim and he said our kirtan was relaxing. I have different gurdwara's as my screensaver and the polish guy i work with recognises each of them now and what is special about them. So i really think it helps not having all the sikhs in one place.

In theory what i think we want to achieve sounds good, but in reality i can't see there being many major differences.

Again sorry if have offended anyone, i am here to learn!

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!

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Suno nand lal eh saach

pargat karahoon apna RAAJ

chaar baran ik baran banaaoon

Vaheguroo Singh ko naam japaaoon

- In Bhai Nand lal singhs poetry in a convo with Guroo Gobond Singh maharaaj

you wanna deny Khalistan? Did the 100,000+ innocent Sikhs killed by the goverment for being accused of "terrorism" die in vain? Yeh Sikhs fight amongst themselves, but we don exactly kill one another over differences, just look at how the Muslims do that to eachother. One of the 52 hukams by Guroo Gobind Singh ji is to RULE INDEPENDENTLY and yet u say we shouldn't have our own country, yeh let's live like slaves, I'm sure that's what maharaaj wanted. Issues like drinking, drugs etc can be dealt with after. Let's remove the shackles of slavery first. As far as corruption is concerned, these corrupt masand types won't have any say in anything related to Khalistan. The kharkoos used toake sure of that during the movement.

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Suno nand lal eh saach

pargat karahoon apna RAAJ

chaar baran ik baran banaaoon

Vaheguroo Singh ko naam japaaoon

- In Bhai Nand lal singhs poetry in a convo with Guroo Gobond Singh maharaaj

you wanna deny Khalistan? Did the 100,000+ innocent Sikhs killed by the goverment for being accused of "terrorism" die in vain? Yeh Sikhs fight amongst themselves, but we don exactly kill one another over differences, just look at how the Muslims do that to eachother. One of the 52 hukams by Guroo Gobind Singh ji is to RULE INDEPENDENTLY and yet u say we shouldn't have our own country, yeh let's live like slaves, I'm sure that's what maharaaj wanted. Issues like drinking, drugs etc can be dealt with after. Let's remove the shackles of slavery first. As far as corruption is concerned, these corrupt masand types won't have any say in anything related to Khalistan. The kharkoos used toake sure of that during the movement.

Can you send me a link please I would like to read them

I would favour Sikhs to focus their attention on Sikh Nationalism within India rather than Independence from India [for the time being]

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Suno nand lal eh saach

pargat karahoon apna RAAJ

chaar baran ik baran banaaoon

Vaheguroo Singh ko naam japaaoon

- In Bhai Nand lal singhs poetry in a convo with Guroo Gobond Singh maharaaj

you wanna deny Khalistan? Did the 100,000+ innocent Sikhs killed by the goverment for being accused of "terrorism" die in vain? Yeh Sikhs fight amongst themselves, but we don exactly kill one another over differences, just look at how the Muslims do that to eachother. One of the 52 hukams by Guroo Gobind Singh ji is to RULE INDEPENDENTLY and yet u say we shouldn't have our own country, yeh let's live like slaves, I'm sure that's what maharaaj wanted. Issues like drinking, drugs etc can be dealt with after. Let's remove the shackles of slavery first. As far as corruption is concerned, these corrupt masand types won't have any say in anything related to Khalistan. The kharkoos used toake sure of that during the movement.

If Guru Gobing Singhji wanted Khalistan he would have created it. Guruji wanted to fight oppression and allow Hindus to practice Hinduism and Muslims to practice Islam.

Sikhism is about the brotherhood of man not segregating itself from everyone else.

Please tell me where it says one of Guru Gobind Singh Jis hukams is to Rule Independently. Ill tell you one thing it wont be in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji anywhere.

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If your on about Maharajs 52 hukums, here they are, in transliteration and translation or you could get the book from DTF which is called the 52 Hukum from Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

1) Dharam di Kirat karni - Earn by honest means.

2) Daswand dena - Give one tenth of your salary.

3) Gurbani kantth karni - Memorize Gurbani.

4) Amrit Vaelae utthna - Wake up Amrit Vela (before dawn).

5) Sikh sewak di sewa ruchi naal karni - Serve a Sikh Servant with devotion.

6) Gurbani dae arth Sikh vidhvana tuo parrhnae - Learn the meanings of Gurbani from Sikh Scholars.

7) Punj Kakaar di Rehat drirh kar rukhni - Follow the discipline of the 5 K's strictly.

8) Shabad da abhihas karna - Practice Shabad Gurbani in life.

9) Sat-Saroop Satgur da dhian dharna - Concentrate on the True Guru (God).

10) Guru Granth Sahib Ji noo Guru mananaa - Accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru.

11) Kaarjaan dae arambh vich ardaas karni - At the beginning of a task, perform ardaas

12) Jaman, maran, ja viah mokae Jup da paatth kar tihaaval (Karaah Parsaad) kar anand sahib dia punj paurian, ardaas, pratham punj pyaariaan atae hazoori granthi noo vartaa kae oprunth sangat noo vartaaouna - At birth, death, or marriage ceremonies, do Japji Sahib, make Karaah Parshaad, do five stanzas of anand sahib, do ardaas, and then distribute Karaah Parshaad to the Panj Pyare, the Granthi, and then to the sangat.

13) Jab tak Karaah Parshaad vartadaa rahae sadh sangat addol batthee rahae - Until Karaah Parshaad is completely distributed, the Sangat should remain sitting and unmoving.

14) Anand Viah bina grahist nahi karna - Do not start married life without Anand Karaj (Sikh ceremony of marriage).

15) Par-Istri, Ma-Bhain, Dhi-Bhain, kar jaanani. Par Istri da sang nahi karna - Recognize all other women other than your wife as mothers and sisters. Do not engage in marital behaviour with them.

16) Istri da mooh nahi fitkaarnaa - Do not silence your wife?

17) Jagat-jootth tambaaku bikhiaa da tiaag karna - Abandon worldly falsehoods and tobacco-poison.

18) Rehatvaan atae naam jupan vaalae gursikhaa di sangat karni - Keep the company of Sikhs who follow the Rehat and meditate on the Name (of God).

Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.u...d-singh-ji.html

19) Kum karan vich daridar nahi karna - Don't be lazy while doing work.

20) Gurbani di katha tae keertan roaz sunanaa atae karna - Listen and do kirtan and Gurbani discourses daily.

21) Kisae di ninda, chugali, atae eirkha nahi karni - Do not engage in slander, gossip or spite anyone

22) Dhan, jawaani, tae kul-jaat da abhiman nahi karnaa (Nanak daadak tahe duae goath. Saak guru sikhan sang hoath) - Do not take pride in wealth, youth and caste. (Mother and Father's caste both castes. All Sikhs of the Guru are siblings)?

23) Mat uchi tae suchi rakhni - Keep the religious discipline high and pure.

24) Shubh karman tao kadae naa ttarnaa - Do not refrain from doing Righteous deeds.

25) Budh bal da daataa vaheguroo noo jaananaa - Recognize God as the giver of intellect and strength.

26) Sugandh (kasam sahu) dae kar itbaar janaaoun vaalae tae yakeen nahi karna -

Do not believe a person who swears (one who tries/attempts to convince someone with a 'saun or saugandh').

Source:: Sikhism Philosophy Network http://www.sikhism.u...ead.php?t=21223

27) Sutantar Vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahi daenaa - Rule Independently. In the affaris of government, do not give people of other religions authority/power.

28) Raajniti parhni - Study politics.

29) Dushman naal saam, daam, bhaed, aadiak, upaa vartnae - With the enemy, practice/deploy the various techniques/tactics of diplomacy (saam, daam, dand, bhed).

30) Shaster vidyaa atae ghorhae di savaari da abhiaas karna - Practice the knowledge of weaponry and horse riding.

31) Doosrae mataa dae pustak, vidyaa parhni. Pur bhrosaa drirh Gurbani, Akal Purakh tae karnaa - Study the books and knowledge of other faiths. But keep trust in Gurbani and Akal Purukh.

32) Gurupdaesaa noo dhaaran karna - Follow the teachings of the Guru.

33) Raheraas da paath kar kharae ho kae ardaas karni - After Rehras Paatth, do Ardaas standing up.

34) Saun valae sohila atae 'paun guru pani pita...' salok parhna - Recite Sohila and 'paun guru pani pita...' stanza before going to sleep.

35) Dastaar bina nahi rehnaa - Wear a turban at all times.

36) Singha da adha naam nahi bulauna - Do not call a Singh by half of their name (nickname).

37) Sharaab nai saevani - Do not partake of alcoholic drinks.

38) Sir munae noo kanaiaa nahi daeni. Uos ghar daevni jithae Akal Purukh di sikhi ha, jo karzaai naa hovae, bhalae subhaa da hovae, bibaeki atae gyanvaan hovae - Do not given a daughter's hand to a clean shaven. Give her hand in a house where God's Sikhi exists, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgeable.

39) Subh kaaraj Gurbani anusaar karnae - Do all work in accordance with Gurbani.

40) Chugali kar kisae da kam nahi vigaarnaa - Do not ruin someone's work by gossip.

41) Kaurha bachan nahi kahinaa - Do not utter bitter statements.

42) Darshan yaatraa gurdwaaraa di hi karni - Make pilgrimages to Gurudwaras only.

43) Bachan karkae paalnaa - Fulfill all promises that are made

44) Pardaesi, lorvaan, dukhi, apung manukh di yataahshkat sewa karni - Do as much sewa as you can for foreigners, the needy and the troubled.

45) Putari da dhan bikh jananaa - Recognize the property of a daughter as poison?

46) Dikhaawae da Sikh nahi bananaa - Do not become an outward show-off Sikh.

47) Sikhi kesaa-suaasa sang nibhaaouni - Live and die a Keshadhaari Sikh

48) Chori, yaari, tthugi, dhokaa, dagaa bahi karnaa - Refrain from engaging in theft, adultery / promiscuity / permissiveness , fraud, deceit, embezzlement.

49) Sikh da itbaar karna - Believe a Sikh.

50) Jhutthi gavaahi nahi daeni - Do not give false testimony.

51) Dhroh nahi karnaa - Do not cheat.

52) Langar-Parshaad ik ras vartaaunaa - Distribute Langar and Karaah Parshaad with equality.

There's the 52 hukams of Guroo gobind Singh jee, read number 27. The hukams are from a series of letters sent by maharaj to various Sikh communities. Also Raaj is talked about in Bhai Nand lal singhs convos with maharaaj. Yeh sikhi is about brootherhood, but that ain't gonna change if we have Khalistan. Again I ask u did those 100,00+ die in vain? If no, then keep alive the idea they died for.

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its true. just beacuase we cnt unite does not mean we dont need independecne. its unfortunate however the need for freedom is there though. beacuase we cant unite does not mean it cant be done in the future, lets make a change to unite and accept all of the Sikh quam

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The people that watch too many bollywood films dismiss the Sikh call for independance as over reacting.

When they turn off Zee Cinema and start learning about what goes on in the real world thats when they wake up and realise that Sikhs tried their best to live in Hindustan as equals but their atrocities against the Sikhs have left no other choice but to pursue the Sikh right for self determination in the form of the sovereign state of Khalistan.

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Guest mehtab1singh
If Guru Gobing Singhji wanted Khalistan he would have created it. Guruji wanted to fight oppression and allow Hindus to practice Hinduism and Muslims to practice Islam. Sikhism is about the brotherhood of man not segregating itself from everyone else.
Correct, agreed.
Please tell me where it says one of Guru Gobind Singh Jis hukams is to Rule Independently.

Ill tell you one thing it wont be in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji anywhere.

I am not sure about Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, but as per my limited knowledge, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj did say "Raj Bina Neh Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Daley Maley Hain", and "Koi Kisi Ko Raj Nah Deh Hai, Jo Leh Hai Nijj Bal Se Lai Hain".

The people that watch too many bollywood films dismiss the Sikh call for independance as over reacting.

When they turn off Zee Cinema and start learning about what goes on in the real world thats when they wake up and realise that Sikhs tried their best to live in Hindustan as equals but their atrocities against the Sikhs have left no other choice but to pursue the Sikh right for self determination in the form of the sovereign state of Khalistan.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! Way to go, awesome example!!!!

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There are many fake khalsitanis these days.These fakes have not read bani, are not nitnemis, know nothing about sikh history.These fakes also disown bani of Guru Gobind singh ji.

One of these fakes is Gurmit aulakh.How such people can help such a cause when they have no life themselves.

Khalsa raj should be based on religious principles of sikhism that supports a system in which there is no aggrieved whether he is a sikh or hindu or muslim or christian and not on gunda gurdi of fake khalistanis who use unsikh language from stages.

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You have asked this question, and this is exactly what you should be doing and not follow anything without knowing the facts, which I will outline below.

We need to raise an international Sikh discussion on this topic, on why as Sikhs we need an Independent state. This will enable people who do not think we need are own land to change there minds, as there is abundant evidence that shows we need our own land . Until we get our own land, we will just be beaten physically, mentally and spiritually by our enemies in fact this is what is happening now, we are just the new Jews of the World, I would not be surprised to find out that there are more genocidal incidents that have occurred against the Sikh community by the Indian government than the Nazi regime committed against the Jewish community, we Sikhs are a very weak community specially in Punjab or Amritsar the site of our most holiest shire Harmindir Sahib, this is where RSS and BJP activists are operating in open its like Nazi's marching through Israel , you may think we are strong but we are not, the Indian government has shown us this, the Harimandir Sahib attack or the Mass genocide of Sikhs could never have happened if there was not involvement of weak Sikhs, we need to now setup Sikh strongholds in the West, like Historical and religious institutes, Political organization and think tanks similar to the Akal Takhat, as the Sikh institutes in India have been compromised by the Indian government. On the basis of the Sikh Kingdom of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, I think we should have our own land maybe international law supports this, we should deem the India government an illegal entity in occupied Punjab. If the Indian government could put us in gas chambers they would, like an Indian parliamentary stated in the 80's that if they had to kill 25 million Sikh then they will. Why to Sikhs in Punjab say they do not want an independent land, because they know if they ever speak of a separate land they will most likely be killed , they are afraid for their life, this is slave thinking and not the thoughts of a free individual.

This is now a War of Minds, if a community does not know about its history, religion, or culture, then how will it know if a crime is being committed against it. For example Hindu extremist advocate that Sikh heroes were actually Hindus and have changed school teaching books in Punjab, within four generations Sikhs will actually say themselves that Sikhs heroes were actually Hindus themselves. Lookup the dictionary meaning of a Sikh, they mostly state it is a combination of Hinduism and Islam, this is totally wrong who gave them the right to state such inaccurate information.

Ask yourselves why do Sikhs know more about the Jewish holocaust than the Sikh genocide committed by the Indian government?

Ask yourselves why the world knows little about the Sikhs genocide, and why the World has taken little action against the Indian government?

Ask yourselfers when an atrocity has been committed against a Sikhs in Indian, it does not make international news around the world ?

I don't really know why we want khalistan, what do we hope to achive from it? Sorry if that has offended anyone, but i'm sure there are many youngsters who don't know either so please kindly educate me on the issue.

At present, in the future and the Past the Sikh religion and people have been and will be under continuous attack by the Indian government by means of attacking us physical - The genocide of Sikhs throughout the 80's in Indian specially Punjab, the lack of resources for Sikhs like energy, the Mass migration of Bayee to Punjab to change demographics and destroy any stronghold of Sikhs, making votes for congress. Attacking us mentally - The Indian government regime of discrimination against Sikhs, eg Sikhs can only marry under the Hindu marriage act, Sikhs not given jobs in Punjab due to the ethnic representation laws, allowing alcohol and drugs to run freely in Punjab. Attacking us spiritually - distorting Sikh history, distorting Sikh religion, the setting up of Cults in Punjab, Encouragement of Hindi over Punjabi language in Punjab. There is evidence to indicate that the Dasam Granth has been compromised by Hindu's long ago and distorted its scriptures.

Like the serpent with many heads the Indian government is not attacking us on one level but multiple levels, the Indian government spies have infiltrated our committees and organisations for one this indicated by the infighting between Sikhs over issues that are very much clear.

The creation of a country for Sikhs will enable us to live without persecution, allow us to think freely, insure justice and security, allow Sikhism to flourish and most importantly have the right of self determination without being the slaves of the Indian government.

I personally think having Khalistan will do more damage than good. Of all the religions in the world Sikhs are the best at fighting amongst themselves! We want to escape the corrupt Indian government and police officers....how often do we hear about corruption in the gurdwara's committees etc, Most of the Punjab police officers are mostly Sikh and that hasn't stopped them being corrupt.

The discussion for a Sikh nation, and Sikh self determination out-weighs the notion we will just fight amongst ourselves, every community and nation has corruption and argue amongst themselves, there is indications in fact the Indian government has infiltrated the Sikhs communities, and are causing much of these arguments so that Sikh community will not come into union. We need to have more faith in our communities and abilities.

If it's about being able to pass laws to ban drinking, smoking..........that in princple is great but i can imagine it would still go on behing closed doors, as panjabi's are known for being the biggest drinkers (after the irish).

I am sure once we have our own country we can combat such addiction like alcoholism and smoking. the Indian government is truly our enemy maybe even worse than the Mughuls, why does the Indian government not ban alcohol in Punjab or setup addiction camps why is Punjab one of the worst states for addiction. The Indian government does not even stop illegal liquor stores in Punjab, what this all points to is, the Indian government actually want Sikh to be addicts so that they will be easy to control then. Infact all Punjabi's are know for now is having parties, singing and dancing and drinking, what happened to the past perceptions of the Sikhs community such as martial saintly people. The Indian government is positively encouraging Sikhs to drink and become addicts, it is not stupid to think that the Indian government created operation to make Sikhs alcoholics.

I also don't agree with segregating our religion off, we are one of the only religions in the world that don't actively go out and convert people, so i think its good for sikhs to be integrated into other different societys so people can learn about out religion. I give lifts to people at work and they always listen to kirtan in my car without complaint. One of the people i have given a lift to is muslim and he said our kirtan was relaxing. I have different gurdwara's as my screensaver and the polish guy i work with recognises each of them now and what is special about them. So i really think it helps not having all the sikhs in one place.

The idea of Sikh nation, would not mean cutting of other religions, have other countries like the US cut off other religions infact the US is very much multi-cultured. A Sikh nation would mean a better springboard for Sikhs to teach others about the Sikh religion and not be silenced as they are now in India.

In theory what i think we want to achieve sounds good, but in reality i can't see there being many major differences.

The only way for Sikhs now, is a nation for Sikhs. We have seen genocide be committed by the worlds largest so called democracy and no justice been given to the perpetrators in fact the perpetrator walk feely and have been rewarded. There will be major difference the laws and polices of a Sikh nation will be based on Sikh scriptures, Sikhs will live freely without persecutions and have self determination<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

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lets be khalsa first rather than khalistanis...when we will become true khalsa, all of us who claim to be the folower of SGGS...unity will be there itself and khalsa raaj or true khalistan will be there itself...which father would provide his bank balance, keys of his safe to kid who ius spoiled and irresponsible...yes we are today damn spoiled and highly irresponsible...we do not deserve a independence...when sons were good with lot of kamai and rehet...Satguru Himself provided khalsa Raaj to His sons...when they started loosing directions provided by Satguru...they lost their khalsa Raaj...!

So we are required to be true Khalsa first...Khalistan would not be a big deal then...!

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If Guru Gobing Singhji wanted Khalistan he would have created it. Guruji wanted to fight oppression and allow Hindus to practice Hinduism and Muslims to practice Islam. Sikhism is about the brotherhood of man not segregating itself from everyone else.
Correct, agreed.

I also agree with you.

Please tell me where it says one of Guru Gobind Singh Jis hukams is to Rule Independently.

Ill tell you one thing it wont be in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji anywhere.

I am not sure about Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, but as per my limited knowledge, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj did say "Raj Bina Neh Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Daley Maley Hain", and "Koi Kisi Ko Raj Nah Deh Hai, Jo Leh Hai Nijj Bal Se Lai Hain".

Where do you get these quotes from? again I doubt these quotes are from Guru Granth Sahibji, you seem to be taking quotes from anywhere just to backup your what you want to think.

The people that watch too many bollywood films dismiss the Sikh call for independance as over reacting.

When they turn off Zee Cinema and start learning about what goes on in the real world thats when they wake up and realise that Sikhs tried their best to live in Hindustan as equals but their atrocities against the Sikhs have left no other choice but to pursue the Sikh right for self determination in the form of the sovereign state of Khalistan.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! Way to go, awesome example!!!!

Just because someone disagrees with you regarding Khalistan then he must fall into one of the following categories

Hindu, Muslim, Sharabi/druggy, Bollywood film lover, uneducated, unsikh, Mona, basically not Sikh

I dont live in India but visit there once or twice a year, I have never come across family, friends or to that mind anyone that is asking for Khalistan or is talking about being oppressed. Its only in the UK or Canada that I hear this type of talk. Mostly young Sikhs in the UK/Canada who think Sikhism is all about 1984. "Our Guru is Guru Granth Sahibji" they say but where does Maharaj talk about Khalistan or any other political issues.

Its the first time I have come across these 52 Hukams of Guru Gobind Singhji but it seems everytime someone needs to back up their own ideas they seem to pull quotes out from all sorts of sources yet they only mann "Sri Guru Granth Sahibji".

Oh and I forgot to mention I dont watch bollywood films I dont get time, but I bet youve seen more than me.

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