Why Do Some Sikhs Dismiss The Sikh Call For Independence From India

[MisterrSingh]

29 minutes ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

your statement rests on the assumption that india/pak as they're now would be existing if and when a sikh state comes into existence on the face of subcontinent.

the last time the sikh empire emerged was when two superpowers of marathas and abdalis annihilated each other in the battle of panipat and the power vacuum thus left was soon filled by the rising sikh misls.

Well, yeah, I'm basing my argument as things are now. Who knows how the geopolitical situation will be in the future. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Well, yeah, I'm basing my argument as things are now. Who knows how the geopolitical situation will be in the future. 

I think a war between India and China is inevitable. Look at how tensions are now escalating at indo china border. 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:48 AM, AjeetSingh2019 said:

Why should we support it ?

Why the "call for independence" is by all of you sitting in foreign shores, especially UK and Canada ? Why not in India where such voices might have more legitimacy ?

A divorce from India would be messy, bloody and is not in the best interests of the panth. 

There are many questions. First of all, Sikhi is not just rooted in punjab , but entire subcontinent . 

Birth place of Guru Gobind Singh ji is in Patna sahib, Jyoti jot place is in Hazur sahib , Nanded, Maharashtra.

Are you willing to let these 2 takhats outside supposed "khalistan" ? and also many other historical gurudwaras outside punjab . 

If we really wanted a sikh state , you (or our ancestors) should have been asking for it while britishers were still calling the shots in subcontinent. We literally fought them both world wars and what did they give us in return ? Nothing !! Why ? because our leaders were fools of the highest orders. Sorry but we're late to the party. Do you want  a sikh state at the expense of blood shed of millions of sikhs ? and all of those who live outside punjab having to lose their properties and assets just so that one of you can become PM of khalistan ?

Also , a nascent khalistan is likely to be very immature in many areas, esp military . It will quickly be absorbed by either india or pakistan. And if its absorbed by pakistan, you will come to know they're one of your deadliest enemies. 

Please get this trash thoughts out of your mind. 

In India such voices have legitimacy? In what world are you living? In Hindustan, such voices have a one way ticket to Nabha/Tihar Jail. 

Why would separation have to be bloody? Are we not in 2020 instead of 1947. Its possible and likely, but I don't see why you folks automatically assume it will be this or that. 

Whats the big deal if a few major historical places are outside of this Sikh nation? Are you saying Hindustani's would burn these places down? Not allow access? If so, that in itself is not a nation we should be apart of. Basically saying we are remaining with India out of fear. 

Nations aren't being "absorbed" left right and center in this world. Nor do I see the current Pakistani administration launching an attack, but we don't know what future regimes of either nation will do. 

FYI, I do not ask for Khalistan. I say we get more autonomy (won't happen) or at least some semblance of justice and a prosperous Punjab. All options seem like a long shot, Khalistan being the least likely. But, I wanted to pose questions to you, regardless. I see often subtle desh bhagats like you always pose the same old questions, as if you've seen through your magic ball that is exactly how a supposed Sikh nation will play out. They are literally the same questions, can you not think for yourself? Sheep. 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

16 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

I think a war between India and China is inevitable. Look at how tensions are now escalating at indo china border. 

Nuclear super powers of the world will not go to war anytime soon. They'll have a skirmish, battle here and then, chest thumping essentially. 

[ChardikalaUK]

36 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

Nuclear super powers of the world will not go to war anytime soon. They'll have a skirmish, battle here and then, chest thumping essentially. 

The most India and China ever do is literally shoving matches on the border, not even gunfire. There is simply too much for them to lose. The Pakistanis on the other hand have nothing to lose because their country is a mess.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

40 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

The most India and China ever do is literally shoving matches on the border, not even gunfire. There is simply too much for them to lose. The Pakistanis on the other hand have nothing to lose because their country is a mess.

Pakistan doesn't want full fledged war, either. They showed that last year. Imran Khan is trying to make progress, not go to war. All 3 nations have to keep face amongst their citizens, all it comes down to really. 

[puzzled]

Pakistan can never progress, its been 70 years and they still do not know who they are or what their identity is, they do not know which way to go. A country which can not decide its identity can never progress because it is in conflict with itself, no direction...

islamic or secular, arab or south asian, etc these are question that they still trying to figure out. 

Their language Urdu is not indigenous to their land, Urdu developed in modern day India. Their national anthem is in Persian while their national Heroes are all foreign. Their history books are full of stories of foreign people that invaded their land and they see these foreign achievements and invasions as their own achievements!

their culture is blend of local indian and arab/persion and they are constantly correcting themselves whenever they naturally do anything indian, is this haram? is this permissible?  is this islamic?  when their ancestors have been doing it for 1000s of years. 

They thought the arabs would love them and include them in everything, but to this day they are still waiting for that phone call. 

The founder of that country was a Shia, yet Shias are persecuted.

Its a tragedy really, lost forever ... 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

45 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Pakistan can never progress, its been 70 years and they still do not know who they are or what their identity is, they do not know which way to go. A country which can not decide its identity can never progress because it is in conflict with itself, no direction...

islamic or secular, arab or south asian, etc these are question that they still trying to figure out. 

Their language Urdu is not indigenous to their land, Urdu developed in modern day India. Their national anthem is in Persian while their national Heroes are all foreign. Their history books are full of stories of foreign people that invaded their land and they see these foreign achievements and invasions as their own achievements!

their culture is blend of local indian and arab/persion and they are constantly correcting themselves whenever they naturally do anything indian, is this haram? is this permissible?  is this islamic?  when their ancestors have been doing it for 1000s of years. 

They thought the arabs would love them and include them in everything, but to this day they are still waiting for that phone call. 

The founder of that country was a Shia, yet Shias are persecuted.

Its a tragedy really, lost forever ... 

Never is a strong word. I see no reason why they can't be upto par with India, especially considering they have made economic progress. Of course they're still significantly further behind.

Many of your points can apply just as easily to India, by the way. 

[ChardikalaUK]

10 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

Never is a strong word. I see no reason why they can't be upto par with India, especially considering they have made economic progress. Of course they're still significantly further behind.

Many of your points can apply just as easily to India, by the way. 

No their Islamic roots will always hold them back. The whole 'is this haram' mentality will always keep them one step behind. They are more focused on the afterlife than this life.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

3 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

No their Islamic roots will always hold them back. The whole 'is this haram' mentality will always keep them one step behind. They are more focused on the afterlife than this life.

I don't quite agree (nor do I agree with Islam), as other nations have shown they have found ways to progress even with Islamic roots.