Why Do Some Sikhs Dismiss The Sikh Call For Independence From India

[ChardikalaUK]

2 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

I don't quite agree (nor do I agree with Islam), as other nations have shown they have found ways to progress even with Islamic roots. 

It's true to some extent but have a look at Muslim immigrants in Europe, whether they are North Africans in France, Belgium, Holland or Turks in Germany, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK, Lebanese in Australia, they are all near the bottom of society, less educated, less employed, disproportionately involved in crime and grooming gangs. The only thing linking all of these groups is Islam. Whereas India is progressing, Islamic countries are becoming more backwards.

[puzzled]

31 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

Many of your points can apply just as easily to India, by the way. 

In which way? 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

14 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

It's true to some extent but have a look at Muslim immigrants in Europe, whether they are North Africans in France, Belgium, Holland or Turks in Germany, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK, Lebanese in Australia, they are all near the bottom of society, less educated, less employed, disproportionately involved in crime and grooming gangs. The only thing linking all of these groups is Islam. Whereas India is progressing, Islamic countries are becoming more backwards.

Besides economic, what progress is India making? Especially in relation to Sikhs. 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

15 minutes ago, puzzled said:

In which way? 

India has no one identity, culture, language either. Many outright refusing to speak Hindi etc.  

Sectarian movements are ongoing in both nations. 

Culture in India also has foreign influences. 

Both these nations share histories anyway, their history is one, until 1947. 

Pakistan is cozying up to the Saudis. India was on their knees for the Russians, now they idolize Trump. Giving Trump one giant ****job last year. 

As per the Urdu being foreign to Pakistan. We can be sure Punjabi likely developed in Modern day Pakistan, so is Punjabi not our language now?

[ChardikalaUK]

8 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

Besides economic, what progress is India making? Especially in relation to Sikhs. 

Economy is usually the most important thing for a nation. It's the reason why we're sitting here in the UK and Canada instead of Punjab.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

1 minute ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Economy is usually the most important thing for a nation. It's the reason why we're sitting here in the UK and Canada instead of Punjab.

Well Pakistani economy is growing as well...not as fast as India's, but its made significant progress. Long way to go (for both nations), however. 

[ChardikalaUK]

6 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

Well Pakistani economy is growing as well...not as fast as India's, but its made significant progress. Long way to go (for both nations), however. 

There will always be violence there due to Afghanistan. Foreign countries won't invest there as much. They were actually ahead of India in the 1970s and 1980s but went backwards due to General Zia Ul Haq who made it a backwards islamic sharia hellhole.

I don't see them ever having a space program. Remember these are the people who believe that the meteorite in mecca comes from heaven. Even their top scientists think that. They even had a nobel prize winner for physics but they disowned him because he was an Ahmedi. With a mentality like that they will never get anywhere.

[puzzled]

26 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

India has no one identity, culture, language either. Many outright refusing to speak Hindi etc.  

Sectarian movements are ongoing in both nations. 

Culture in India also has foreign influences. 

Both these nations share histories anyway, their history is one, until 1947. 

Pakistan is cozying up to the Saudis. India was on their knees for the Russians, now they idolize Trump. Giving Trump one giant ****job last year. 

As per the Urdu being foreign to Pakistan. We can be sure Punjabi likely developed in Modern day Pakistan, so is Punjabi not our language now?

That's 2 different things. India does not have one identity because every state has it's own linguistic and cultural identity. But the languages of each state developed in that region and are not foreign.

Pakistan punjab on the other hand does not even have a punjabi newspaper! Neither do they speak punjabi in the punjab government! Or in the schools. They paki punjabis speak urdu. 

Pakistan's national anthem is persian

Indian heroes are all home grown, the rajputs, marathas, ashoka etc. And they all were south Asian not foreigners.

Indians celebrating south asians and pakistanis celebrating the achievements of foreigners is 2 different things!

Punjabi developed over a 1000 years ago, from what I read it developed in the central punjab region lahore/amritsar. Gurmukhi script was written in punjab.

Indians do not have a identity crisis, Pakistanis do,  there is no comparison.

Indians are now even changing the names of cities that the mughals changed back to the original indian names. 

The culture of india and pakistan even b4 partition was different. Only punjabis from the Gurdaspur region, people of the thar desert and the Sindhis had similarities, the rest of the subcontinent was/is culturally very different and diverse. 

 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

30 minutes ago, puzzled said:

That's 2 different things. India does not have one identity because every state has it's own linguistic and cultural identity. But the languages of each state developed in that region and are not foreign.

Pakistan punjab on the other hand does not even have a punjabi newspaper! Neither do they speak punjabi in the punjab government! Or in the schools. They paki punjabis speak urdu. 

Pakistan's national anthem is persian

Indian heroes are all home grown, the rajputs, marathas, ashoka etc. And they all were south Asian not foreigners.

Indians celebrating south asians and pakistanis celebrating the achievements of foreigners is 2 different things!

Punjabi developed over a 1000 years ago, from what I read it developed in the central punjab region lahore/amritsar. Gurmukhi script was written in punjab.

Indians do not have a identity crisis, Pakistanis do,  there is no comparison.

Indians are now even changing the names of cities that the mughals changed back to the original indian names. 

The culture of india and pakistan even b4 partition was different. Only punjabis from the Gurdaspur region, people of the thar desert and the Sindhis had similarities, the rest of the subcontinent was/is culturally very different and diverse. 

 

Pakistans different regions also have their own spoken languages however, sindhi etc. People of those provinces do attach to their regional identity, which has also led to the militant movements there. That's a whole different issue though. 

I will admit they are losing Punjabi language. But, the anthem is not in Persian. Urdu as a language is quite hybrid, hence the similarities. 

Amritsar came to be a few centuries ago. Western Punjab had most of the early day settlements. If anything, Punjabi was from modern day Pakistan. I'm trying to say dividing their history is ludicrous. Their histories are very much tied in together. Their histories being tied, the border not having existed before the creation of Urdu makes it silly to say Urdu is foreign. It existed there for centuries prior. 

Areas such as Sind have their own legendary historical figures as well. Indians having pride in their region isn't quite Indian pride then, especially in you consider the conflicts it has created. 

In the end, yes Pakistan does have many issues. But, so does your India. Especially as they modernize, turn to English and Western culture. 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2]

1 hour ago, ChardikalaUK said:

There will always be violence there due to Afghanistan. Foreign countries won't invest there as much. They were actually ahead of India in the 1970s and 1980s but went backwards due to General Zia Ul Haq who made it a backwards islamic sharia hellhole.

I don't see them ever having a space program. Remember these are the people who believe that the meteorite in mecca comes from heaven. Even their top scientists think that. They even had a nobel prize winner for physics but they disowned him because he was an Ahmedi. With a mentality like that they will never get anywhere.

Really lol? Like India doesn't have their fare share of morons? Till day they burn Ravan, believe 8 legged gods, and kill people over gau raksha. I dont understand why some Sikhs chose one over the other, both nations are trouble.