Why Do Some Sikhs Dismiss The Sikh Call For Independence From India

[I humbly bow]

The motives for killings like these go on everywhere on this planet, in every race and religion, this is no reason why we Sikhs should not have our own country.

I didn't say that, the other member said sikhs fight but it's not like they are killing each other....so i just wanted to point out that wasn't true.

Could we not try and achieve inner bliss as well as campaign for a Sikh homeland at the same time. We know what has been done to our people and religion is inhuman, the Indian goverment has basically ripped our hearts out and urinated on our very essence. For Gods sake they attacked Harminder Sahib, raped Sikh women et . Why would a Sikh want to wait any longer for freedom.

I believe that when we achieve inner bliss, khalistan will be handed to us by itself. You want freedom from the indian government, but as long as you seek to go in like a raging bull with anger then it will never happen.

As well as Congress these are Ultra Hindu extremist political parties which are against all other religions, worse than the Nazi's. Whom

are very much in contol of Indian poltics, and are very much behind the genocide which goes on in India.

Yes I really do think that the Indian govermnet spies are causing trouble within the Sikh community abroad and India and are creating negative propaganda against Sikhs. The air India flight bombing from Canada to Indian, had Indian goverment involvment, if they can do that why can't they distort Sikh communities. Yes I also accept that we cause some problems ourselves, but the Indian goverment is not going to leave any proof or tell us they are causing problems within our communties.

Dude you can't make statements like the above two, without evidence to back it up. For all you know it is someone else who has been causing all this stuff, how would you feel if you had been saying such bad things and making such big accusations and then you found out that it was just 1 man or an entirely different sect to blame. I believe in innocent untill proven guilty. Everything you say against the indian governement seems to be hearsay, rumours, or your own personal view that you seem to be passing off as fact.

When would you wait till, when there is no real Sikh left in Punjab. Being in India is far more dirty than what we would create for ourselves. This fresh start you talk about will never happen, we are not a plague of irresponible people that can't look after ourselves, we can tackle all these issues after we have our new land, that should be our priority.

I don't know how long we will have to wait till, but i think if waheguru thought that we were ready to create this clean state, we would have it by now, we as indeviduals all need to put the effort in to change ourseves before we are deemed worthy to recieve such a gift

Don't get me wrong i can understand why your so bitter towards the indian government, well actually i didn't know before (other than what happened in 84) but i've been having a conversation with an amazing sikh on here who is so good at explaining things and has so much knowlege, its helped me see things from the other point of view. I can understand how it stems way back from when the british were willing to give us khalistan but it was the indian goverment who didn't.....that shocked me, i didn't know that!

My only reply to that can be we probably weren't ready for it back then, and we probably aren't ready for it right now. But i'm sure if khalistan is needed for the sikh faith waheguru will definately provide....always trust that whatever happens was meant to happen. Please don't spread hatred, without being totally sure that what you are saying is true. Stay in chardi kala, pray from your heart and remember......................

...............'Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!'.......it's not our victory over anyone

[MAJHAIL_JATT]

Relax Singho

These quotes have been stated by Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale as well as Panth Ratan Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen, besides several other Gurmukhs too. Its not correct because I said so, but because these Gurmukh Singhs who were scholars of Bani stated them and explained them as well.

Is it possible to post a recording on here?

Thanks Singh, sorry to add to your trouble, but where exactly do they say what you said they say?

So I take it you don't understand Punjabi? My Punjabi is also not 100% as I'm Canadian born but I will translate best I can for you.

6:35- "kay v@r ay jago raani busan de vich vee char jay" - "Some times this jago would get on buses" this is how I believe it can be translated out, then he goes on to say how this jago came to many people in anger.

7:40- they are talking about a DSP officer named gurbachan and they say "ap tan marna cee papi nay, tubar la kay bagyaa" "he is wanting to die, he takes his family and sits with them" then he sais how jago did saphi of his daughters and sons. "tiyan puttar sunay(don't know what this word means) wife de, jago ne karee safi"

This is my rough translation, again punjabi is second language and I'm still learning it and it's difficult for me to type it out in english script.

Interestingly, the new remake of this by jagowale doesn't include any of this.

[Guest mehtab1singh]

So I take it you don't understand Punjabi?

I knew that was coming :D , but I can understand and speak it pretty good, its just that I have heard the new version and wasn't sure what exactly you interpreted as celebrating the killing of innocents on buses.

6:35- "kay v@r ay jago raani busan de vich vee char jay" - "Some times this jago would get on buses" this is how I believe it can be translated out, then he goes on to say how this jago came to many people in anger.

You could probably be right about this one, however someone else could translate it in another way as well. They don't say about killing anyone on buses explicitly though.

7:40- they are talking about a DSP officer named gurbachan and they say "ap tan marna cee papi nay, tubar la kay bagyaa" "he is wanting to die, he takes his family and sits with them" then he sais how jago did saphi of his daughters and sons. "tiyan puttar sunay(don't know what this word means) wife de, jago ne karee safi"

Yes this does sound like it, and I am not sure if this was sung in hajuri of Guru Maharaj, as he also sings "aap te marna si saaley ne". Not sure why the wife and kids would be killed.

Interestingly, the new remake of this by jagowale doesn't include any of this.

Probably, because I have heard the new "re-mixed" version and was surprised when I read about the old one celebrating what you stated.

Anyone else want to comment/clarify?

[Jaipal2004]

Raaj Karega Khalsa - it doesn't say Raj Karega Khalsa, Khalistan Wich !!

Yes there are problems but we want to run a country when we can't even run our own houses?? We have fighting internally, within Gurdwara's, we can't even eliminate basic issues like casteism etc yet you want a country?! What will that achieve?

Singho - set your sights high, there will be a day when the Kesri Nishan Sahib will fly above the Lal Qila again - we don't want to limit ourselves to a singular state!!

[Only five]

Raaj Karega Khalsa - it doesn't say Raj Karega Khalsa, Khalistan Wich !!

Yes there are problems but we want to run a country when we can't even run our own houses?? We have fighting internally, within Gurdwara's, we can't even eliminate basic issues like casteism etc yet you want a country?! What will that achieve?

Singho - set your sights high, there will be a day when the Kesri Nishan Sahib will fly above the Lal Qila again - we don't want to limit ourselves to a singular state!!

The reason why we can't run our own house is because we don't have our own country. This is not about attaining land(though land is still a problem), but authority where we can run our own affairs and penaltize those that disobey the rules. The Khalsa Panth would have it's own force who deliver and administer justice. You cannot do this in this world without a state. Hence why we have Darshan Laal and his moorakh associates running around like wild dogs.

When you have a country you have authority, when you have authority then other countries will listen to your decisions and not allow or allow things happen in Sikhi according to the authorities word in other countries.

Take for example the excommunication of Darshan Laal. If we had a country the authority would be their to ring up the Presidents and Prime Ministers of other countries and tell them to arrest him if speaks at any Sikhi gathering or goes against any other restrictions Akal Takht has placed on him.

If we had a country KPS Gill would not be able to walk around free today. And like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, majority of Sikh affairs will be solved and the house would be in order.

[yubacitysingh]

its hard for people to support khalistan when their is no plan

how will ppl get khalistan, most the old guys from 80's and 90's when the fight was on chose to stay in canada and uk rather then go fight for it, so most ppl look at these old guys and just laugh, they talk the talk but cannot walk the walk

but how will ppl get khalistan like is their a plan, what type of country will khalistan be the type maharaja ranjit singh had that allowed meat and liquar or a country that ban's this, considering most sikhs drink and eat meat how will you get them to support a country and fight for a country that supports to ban this, punjab is full of so much corruption and social problems like half the state's youth suffering from drug addictions, heck drug addictions are a huge problem amongst canadian sikh youth in vancouver as well

How can ppl support khalistan when their is no plan how ppl will go on to get khalistan what type of countrty khalistan will be and how will it survive economically

if your starting up a buisness if you want to be successfull you have to have a buisness plan, other wise the banks won't give you the money to start up and you will fail, their is no plan that ive seen for khalistan

[yubacitysingh]

wouldn't it be better to bring the community together and attack social issues and bring the community together to bring ppl who murdered inocent sikhs from 80's and 90's to justice, and especially in the west we could influence are govt's to hold india accountable and let the public know through documantry's to be put on tv about the human rights violations in india to sikhs dalits christans do to corrupt politicans in congress and hindu nationalists in the bjp party's

i believe thats why in surrey the sikh youth slate had thousands of ppl comming out to support them and listen to their speech's when they won the election at guru nanak gurdwara, it looked like a nagar kirtan and it was raining but ppl wanted to still come and listen, cause what the sikh youth slate is doing is exactly that trying to bring the community together to fight social issues like drinking drugs gangs lack of sikh knowledge prostitution and list goes on, these guys have 80% of the community behind them

the fundementalists who support khlistan and want ppl to follow a talibon style version of sikhi don't even come close to the sikh youth slate in support and the liberal moderates who believe in a liberal version of sikhi, well they got destroyed 2 to 1 in the gurdwara election

this showed ppl don't care about tables and chairs or stupid politics but care about social issues that effect their daily lives

[ladli-fauj]

Our tenth Guru told us to take arms, and be shastardharis and if need to fight, Guru Ji wanted khalsa to be best equiped, and strong, if this means being a "taliban style version of Sikhi" then you need to relearn what Guru Gobind Singh has taught. As time comes forward and war and fighting back seems like a thing people should not do and leave it on a countries army, we are forgetting what our Gurus have taught us.

[Only five]

wouldn't it be better to bring the community together and attack social issues and bring the community together to bring ppl who murdered inocent sikhs from 80's and 90's to justice, and especially in the west we could influence are govt's to hold india accountable and let the public know through documantry's to be put on tv about the human rights violations in india to sikhs dalits christans do to corrupt politicans in congress and hindu nationalists in the bjp party's

i believe thats why in surrey the sikh youth slate had thousands of ppl comming out to support them and listen to their speech's when they won the election at guru nanak gurdwara, it looked like a nagar kirtan and it was raining but ppl wanted to still come and listen, cause what the sikh youth slate is doing is exactly that trying to bring the community together to fight social issues like drinking drugs gangs lack of sikh knowledge prostitution and list goes on, these guys have 80% of the community behind them

the fundementalists who support khlistan and want ppl to follow a talibon style version of sikhi don't even come close to the sikh youth slate in support and the liberal moderates who believe in a liberal version of sikhi, well they got destroyed 2 to 1 in the gurdwara election

this showed ppl don't care about tables and chairs or stupid politics but care about social issues that effect their daily lives

You give an example of how the youth slate are doing a great job in the community in and around lower Mainland. Ask yourself how did they do it. They took over a place(Gurdwara) where you can use authority and administer policies, and programs to progress the community and Sikhi in the area.

But one point that needs to be made is there is a limit to how much the youth can do because One Gurdwara doesn't hold authority of all. Even if they get other Gurdwaras doing the same then still they will be able to to limited work because they don't hold the key to the policy being made by the state.

Take the above and apply it on an independent state where Sri Akal Takht Sahib will have authority over all Gurdwaras and an army( the Khalsa) to enforce policies, programs, and laws.

The institutions are in place to have a Sikh state. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji didn't leave this earth without setting them up.

Raaj Karega Khalsa isn't a dream or fantasy. A Sikh state will surely set a place where the Khalsa will rule.

Sikhs need to understand why a Sikh State will have a positive impact not just in the state, but around the world. The condemners need to take a step back and actually think it through before condemning it. Canada was established and then the laws were drawn up. Even in the first try they didn't get the laws right and the laws and policy are still changing today(they took British laws and American laws and made a constitution). So to worry about laws is just a pointless issue and only brought up to break people from a Sikh state. Laws and policies are only their to control deviant behavior. Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib ji taugh us to live and let live. Then Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji taught us to fight against oppression not to be the opressor. The laws and policies will follow these teaches.

Sikhs are not lacking in anything, it's just the split between us that is killing us. We have become our own enemy and people like Darshan Laal are seeing through that it stays this way.

[Vpanesar]

It's good to see that there's some of you who's minds aren't clouded with that Khalistan propaganda.... anyways, I think the youth should aknowledge that if Sikhs needed their own state, it woulda happened in guru gobinds times. This stuff about how we lost families and innocents in 84, and we're being treated like <banned word filter activated> by Hindus is the exact same <banned word filter activated> Muslims in Kashmir hear/heard.... Terrorism is a result. Our youth should be taught how to live with Muslims and Hindus ( which is the lesson behind guru nanaks teachings) , and not taught why we need to Be divided from them.