Need Some Help

[Khalasthan86]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa; Waheguru ji ki Fateh;

I have this friend, and he is a Chamar (Ravidassi - Sorry if the word Chamar offends you), and we have a debate, and we were debating about, if Sikhism is a part of Ravidasis, or if Ravidassis are part of Sikhism.

He came up with points:

1) Ravidas was alive (alive as in physicial roop) before Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and therefore Guru Nanak was a follower of Ravidas...

2) Ravidassis bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

what points could i give him, to back my point up...

thank you.

[SunSingh]

Guru ji mentions that his Guru is the Shabad in the bani Siddh Ghost, and not a Guru in human form.

No guru would dare deny his Guru, no sikh ever does, that would make them non-sikhs. So why would Guru Nanak, who embodied all the principles, deny his Guru?

[vahegurujikifateh]

He came up with points:

1) Ravidas was alive (alive as in physicial roop) before Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and therefore Guru Nanak was a follower of Ravidas...

2) Ravidassis bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

Argueing with Chamars is useless. Bhagat Ravidass Ji was in plain words a Chamar and admits this in his hymns and he challenged the Brahmins in Banaras, told them to worship one God only. Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Jagat Guru and Sikhi has converts from Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Jainaism and even some Jews.

[jkvlondon]

On 4/23/2010 at 4:18 PM, Khalasthan86 said:

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa; Waheguru ji ki Fateh;

I have this friend, and he is a Chamar (Ravidassi - Sorry if the word Chamar offends you), and we have a debate, and we were debating about, if Sikhism is a part of Ravidasis, or if Ravidassis are part of Sikhism.

He came up with points:

1) Ravidas was alive (alive as in physicial roop) before Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and therefore Guru Nanak was a follower of Ravidas...

2) Ravidassis bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

what points could i give him, to back my point up...

thank you.

Bhagat Ravi Das ji did exist prior to Guru Nanak Dev ji but so did other Bhagats , Bhagat Ravidas did write  shabads but only some are included which are aligned with sikhi same as other Bhagats otherwise no one today would know his Bani so Guru Sahiban helped preserve Bani which was Gurmukh not self-aggrandising so No Ravi Das ji was following sikhi not the other way around.