Off-Topic Posts 'First Official Budha Dal Jorh Mela In Uk' Thread

[singhfauja]

Mod Note: Post all your offtopic posts to the original thread here:

"Jatha Nihang Singha",

While it is great to organize a program to share amongst the sangat the jeevan of Baba Chet Singh Ji, you must also do justice and share with the sangat the treacherous role of Santa Sinh since 1984.

Your website only seems to glorify Santa Sinh, and makes no mention of his anti-Panthic activities during the 1980s.

The Panth has not forgotten that he called the Kharkoo Singhs and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale "darpokes" (cowards) who were 'soiling' Sri Akal Takht Sahib with their kesheras, and openly challenged while being on Buta Singh's payroll. His cowardly faction of Budha Dal graced the name of this institution, and played a nil role in the Sikh freedom movement.

We seem to have selective short term memories. Please don't forget - Santa joined Indira's ranks and challenged the Sikh Panth for 17 years.

Since when did he become a hero for the youth all of a sudden?

Honoring him would be like spitting on the sacrifices of our Khalistani Shaheeds.

[guruvah]

Honoring him would be like spitting on the sacrifices of our Khalistani Shaheeds.

Personally, its not my intention to spoil this thread. What singhfauja said about Santa Singh is true.

Santa SIngh is unworthy of such honor. :sleep:

For sending public invitation to the general sadhsangat of Khalsa Panth for someone, who cooperated with the Indian Gov back in 1984 to rebuild Takht Sri Akal Takht Sahib using money given by Indian gov.

This is just rubbing salt on our injuries from 1984. <_<

Not only that, claiming oneself as "Guru Ki ladli fauj" and yet none of them stood by the panth let alone fight when the Panth was facing difficult time. On top of that putting down the Singhs who gave their lives for the panth. :o

This barsi invitation of Santa Singh is just very insulting. :sad:

bhul chuk di muafi....

[Harinder_Singh]

Honoring him would be like spitting on the sacrifices of our Khalistani Shaheeds.

Personally, its not my intention to spoil this thread. What singhfauja said about Santa Singh is true.

Santa SIngh is unworthy of such honor. :sleep:

For sending public invitation to the general sadhsangat of Khalsa Panth for someone, who cooperated with the Indian Gov back in 1984 to rebuild Takht Sri Akal Takht Sahib using money given by Indian gov.

This is just rubbing salt on our injuries from 1984. <_<

Not only that, claiming oneself as "Guru Ki ladli fauj" and yet none of them stood by the panth let alone fight when the Panth was facing difficult time. On top of that putting down the Singhs who gave their lives for the panth. :o

This barsi invitation of Santa Singh is just very insulting. :sad:

bhul chuk di muafi....

Baba Santa Singh did seek forgiveness at Akal Takht Sahib and was forgiven. His katha on Sri Sarbloh Granth and Panth Prakash is really inspiring. He cetainly had knowledge. I agree he is not a role model, but still he was forgiven by Akal Takht Sahib and rejoined the Sikh Dharam.

[harihari]

cant wait for this programme, jathedaar baba chet singh jathedaar baba santa singh were very chardi kalaa, kachey pilley dont know full story and start doing nindia of mahapursh. u should read into their life jeevans kachey pilley see what they are about. u will find ther are things that they have experienced spirituallly that kachey pilley can only dream of

[Into the Light]

cant wait for this programme, jathedaar baba chet singh jathedaar baba santa singh were very chardi kalaa, kachey pilley dont know full story and start doing nindia of mahapursh. u should read into their life jeevans kachey pilley see what they are about. u will find ther are things that they have experienced spirituallly that kachey pilley can only dream of

If you feel that Baba Santa Singh has done nothing wrong, then its better to present facts and counter their argument than to start name calling and refer to anyone that doesn't agree with your view point as 'kachey pilley'.

So to counter these negative opinions that people may have, maybe the barsi could be used to discuss the role Baba Santa Singh played in 1984 and after?

I have to be honest, with regard to 1984 I've only ever heard negative things but will be happy to learn about the positive role Buddha Dal and Baba Santa Singh played in support of Sant Jarnail Singh Jee and the jujharoo Singh's.

[Guruji]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh

Watch the below video at 47min to hear sant jarnail singh jees stance on baba Santa Singh, also present in the video is baba thakur singh, baba harnam singh rampurkhera valeh and sant baba nihaal singh - haria velah valeh. Programmes at Rampur khera

[Into the Light]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh

Watch the below video at 47min to hear sant jarnail singh jees stance on baba Santa Singh, also present in the video is baba thakur singh, baba harnam singh rampurkhera valeh and sant baba nihaal singh - haria velah valeh. Programmes at Rampur khera

Wow, Sant Jee has said it all...thats all I really need to hear!

Thanks for sharing the video Jee.

[lodi_my_dodi]

Fateh!

I was also slightly confused about Baba Santa Singh Ji, without doing any nindia I would like to say that it was actually reassuring to hear from Sant Jarnail singh Ji that the movement was unsupported by Baba Santa Singh Ji. Having said that it is good to know that Baba Ji asked for maphi from Akal Thakt sahib.

The bottom line is that we should look past what happened and accept the Akal Thakts decision. We should be able to forgive someone for mistakes as we are not perfect; if we cannot forgive how can we expect forgiveness from Maharaj.

We should all attempt to join in this programme as it is commemorating the good that was done by these Sant Mahapursh.

Bhul Chuk maaf!

[Guruji]

In 1986 the sarbat khalsa, Akaal Takht Sahib, 5 member panthic commitee, Taksal and all other jathebandia jointly excommunicated Baba Santa Singh for helping the government rebuild akaal takht sahib and going against the khalsa panth by supporting indira gandhi. Statements by Baba Santa Singh were made against the Karkoo Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh, many members of the Dal Panth left him then. . . wasnt baba Surjeet Singh one of those who left?

Note - Baba Nihaal Singh and Baba Daya Singh both helped sant jarnail singh.

In august of 86 Santa Singh did his own Sarbat Khalsa.

In the 1990s he was forgiven apparently at akaal takht sahib - what did he ask maafee for? swearing at the karkoos or helping the government? - if it was only one of these and not both then i dont think the panth forgave him, a jathedar or a few politicians may have however. I may be wrong and if he did ask for maaffeee of everything, then there should not be an issue with him anymore.

No one is saying he has not got gyaan or didnt have kamai, it would have been better if the singhs just did baba chet singh jees barsi

[singhfauja]

The above video in which Sant Jarnail Singh addresses Santa Sinh as "Budha Dalia" proves that this man had been working against Panthic interests well before 1984.

Once his health began to deteriorate quickly in 2001, 17 years after he was excommunicated, he decided to stop challenging Sri Akal akht Sahib and orchestrated out a "deal" with Jathedar Vedanti for a lenient 'tankhah.

Remember Vedanti had also "forgiven" the notorious rapist Baba Dhanwant Singh at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, but the Baba was later found GUILTY by the courts, and locked up in prison.

The 2001 pardon of Santa Sinh was a similar political stunt by Budhal Dal and Akali politicians. Panthic organizations who suffered during the 1980s and 1990s were not involved in this decision.

Being knowledgeable about Sikh scriptures does not exempt one from being a gaddar. Santa was a gaddar who for 17 years challenged Sri Akal Takht Sahib and the Khalsa Panth. Like Ragi Darshan he used to say that HE was the REAL Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and that he did not recognize anyone else's authority. Interestingly, Santa Sinh's followers and Ragi followers both share one thing in common - despite the unparalleled treachery - they see both men as 'scholars' and mahapurakhs.

Imagine if Ragi Darshan did that for 17 years (if he lives that long) and then finally due to old age, decides to go pesh in 2027? Would that be OK?

By honoring Santa Nihang, what kind of precedent are we setting?

Are we saying it is OK to do 'gadaree' for almost two decades, as long as we ultimately pesh at some time in the future.

What about all the Nihangs who joined him in 1984, have they asked for forgiveness from the Takht?

Santa Sinh's Budha Dal faction did the ultimate treachery in 1984 - they have not come clean about it to this day.

Calling yourselves 'Dal Panth' or 'guru-kian-ladleean faujan' does not give anybody any special privilege.

There is no reason to honor such individuals.

Instead, honor those who have led exemplary lives during the 1980s and 1990s. Those Soormays and Shaheeds, and Yodhays who sacrificed all they had for the Panth, not those who fought against them.

There is ample evidence that this man has had innocent Singhs murdered during the 1980s who spoke against him.

"Truth about Punjab - SGPC White Paper":

"Subsequently, the Government brought one Santa Singh on the sacred premises and associated him with the reconstruction of the demolished building which the Government sought hurriedly to do through a Government contractor Tejwant Singh. Santa Singh was a person of known anti-Sikh and anti-SGPC antecedents. President Zail Singh, when he was the Chief Minister of Punjab, had associated him in a public procession which he had organised on the Guru Gobind Singh Marg. Santa Singh's associates were released from the prison and he was presented an imported car and an escort to move about. Acknowledging this honour, Santa Singh called him a 'Param Sikh'. "

"Reduced to ashes: The Insurgency and Human Rights in Punjab":

The CCDP has gathered the following information about this case through its incident report form no. CCDP/01702. The main informant is the victim's widow Simarjit Kaur.

Thirty-two-year-old Sukhdev Singh, son of Mangal Singh and Amar Kaur, was a baptized Sikh from Ballagan village, post office Bhopar Saida, under Sadar police station in Gurdaspur district. Sukhdev was married to Simarjit Kaur and had two daughters, Inderjit Kaur and Bhupinderjit Kaur, now in their early twenties, and a son Satinder Pal Singh, a teenager.

In 1984, Sukhdev's elder brother Ranjit Singh, an important functionary of the Nihang sect called "Buddha Dal", was appointed as head of the organization after its then chief Santa Singh was ex-communicated by the Sikh religious establishment for lending support to the government after the June 1984 Operation Blue Star. Santa Singh received the support of the central government and he continued to remain influential. According to Simarjit Kaur, Santa Singh managed to take his revenge and got Ranjit Singh murdered.

Sukhdev Singh was very disturbed by the murder of his brother and, with the resolve to avenge it, he developed links with the militant movement. Soon, the police establishment became suspicious and began to hold him in illegal custody under torture. The police also picked up and interrogated his family members. Sukhdev could not endure the torture and left his home to join the ranks of the underground.

The police atrocities against his family members became more ruthless. According to Simarjit Kaur, the police arrested her father Mohan Singh, resident of Moga, and killed him in a fake encounter. Also, the police abducted the brother-in law of Sukhdev's brother Jugraj Singh, son of Mohinder Singh of Khuddi Cheema village in Gurdaspur district, from his house and killed him.

According to Simarjit Kaur, the Gurdaspur police managed to nab her husband on 3 February 1992 and killed him in an encounter staged the same night. She could not provide further details of the incident.