How Should Sikhs View Homosexuality?

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

The female is in the male, and the male is in the female. Understand this, O God-realized being! (Mahalla 1, Ang 879, Dhan SGGS Ji)

[simran345]

To some its not right, to others it wont matter, but to God everybody is equal, for example, its like if somebody helped somebody thru a bad time, and th person would be grateful for it, and thank god, if they found out after the person that helped them was gay, would they stop believing in god?

To god all are equal, age, religion, jaat-paat. Pjs paaji has said it all.

[sukhjeevansingh]

pjs veerji i am not arguing with you ji!! but you know the bani you quoted well ages ago i heard maskeen jis katha on it. it doesnt promote or like give a reason to see homosexuality as being normal infact quite the opposite

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

The female is in the male, and the male is in the female. Understand this, O God-realized being! (Mahalla 1, Ang 879, Dhan SGGS Ji)

it means in each of us there is a polarity a masculine side and a female side.. just like a right and left side physically. thats why we sit by gender in the guru ghar to balance out our gender polarities its not just a cultural segregation thing i think. and basically maskeen ji was saying thet the male side in us complete (if were male) but the female side is not so we need to complete that so we are naturally attracted to the female and vice versa for bibia thats what theres is to "boojo brahm gyani" as like boojo doesnt neccesarily mean undertsand.. it could be like paheli nu boojna.. like solving a riddle. mahraj gave this bani as a riddle for the brahmgyanis (maybe not brahmgyani as in sukhmani sahib) but those with knowledge of waheguru ji and sikhi to interpret it forr moorakhs like me.

i maybe completely wrong ji

bhul chuk maaf

[guruvah]

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

The female is in the male, and the male is in the female. Understand this, O God-realized being! (Mahalla 1, Ang 879, Dhan SGGS Ji)

Vahiguroo. This came into my mind when I read this pagti.

This is veryyyyyyyy truuuuuuue!

For those who learned Biology in school..and recall the Genetics thingy :happy:

XX chromosome(female) and XY chromosome(male) get divided into half to create reproductive cells . The reproductive cells merge the 23 chromosomes from the mother and father ...and the human being is developed in the mothers womb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

How ACURATE Guru Sahib was! :D

This testifies SatGuroo ji is indeed Vahiguroo Jyot!

ok..you people can continue whatever you peepz were up to....lol

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

The following is an excerpt on this from Maskeen Ji's katha on Sri Charitropakhyan:

ਪਾਨੀ ਮੈਲਾ ਮਾਟੀ ਗੋਰੀ ॥

paanee mailaa maattee goree ||

The water of the sperm is cloudy, and the egg of the ovary is crimson.

ਇਸ ਮਾਟੀ ਕੀ ਪੁਤਰੀ ਜੋਰੀ ॥੧॥

eis maattee kee putharee joree ||1||

From this clay, the puppet is fashioned. ||1|| (Bhagat Kabir Ji, SGGS Ji)

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਕਰੇ ॥

maath pithaa sanjog oupaaeae rakath bindh mil pindd karae ||

Through the union of mother and father, the fetus is formed. The egg and sperm join together to make the body. (Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Ang 1013, SGGS Ji)

In this human body, there are some elements that are masculine in nature and others that are feminine. It is through the union of male and female a child is born, and thus has elements of both of them in him/her. Guru Nanak Dev Ji expresses it as:

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee ||

The female is in the male, and the male is in the female. Understand this, O God-realized being! (Ang 879, SGGS Ji)

Those who consider them learned and big researchers, they should also understand this tukk. There is no such female that has no elements of male characteristics in her and similarly, there is no such man that has no female elements in him. The only reason a male has become a male is because the male elements in him are in majority as compared to the female elements. Similarly, a woman is a woman because the female elements in her are in majority in comparison to male elements. Thus, there is an incomplete father within a woman and an incomplete mother within a man. An incomplete mother wants to be complete, that is why a mother feels more attached to the male child than the girl child. Similarly, a male's bonding and attachment is with the female child than the male child. Guru Nanak Dev Ji clarifies this thought:

ਬਾਲ ਕੰਨਿਆ ਕੌ ਬਾਪੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਭਾਈ ਕੌ ਅਤਿ ਭਾਈ ॥

baal kanniaa ka baap piaaraa bhaaee ka ath bhaaee ||

The father is dear to his young daughter, and the brother is very dear to his brother. (Ang 596, SGGS Ji)

There are many areas that have not been explored, and when Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj explains them in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, many fools have got up and have started creating unnecessary commotion within Sikh Panth. They ask, "Is it appropriate to read Triya Charitars?" Of course, but also read the description of characters of males as told to us by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji Maharaj in Hiqayats. The corruption of mindset of both male and female and the combination of these mindsets will bring about such disastrous consequences. If a child has turned out to be bad, then it is the bad parents that are responsible, at least they were bad at that particular moment when that child's existence happened. Such parents may have corrected themselves, but surely they must have had bad qualities earlier when the child was conceived.

[harsimran kaur]

Homosexuality is biological... there are homosexuals in different animal species too.. so it's not a cultural or social influence. It's just the way their brains work. The brain of a homosexual man resembles that of a heterosexual woman (and vice versa for lesbian women), which is why they are attracted to men instead of women. Also there are many people who are born as something "between", or have both female and male reproductive organs. How should these people be classified? Whom are they allowed to love and marry with? And generally, masculinity and femininity manifest themselves in so many different ways in the average heterosexual people too...

Anyway, it's a serious issue.. Denying gay Sikhs the right to marry, is basically to deny them of gristhi jeevan. Either they have to live alone for all their lives, be untruthful and marry a woman (or man in case of lesbians), or break the rehat. What should they do? If anand kaaraj is a union between two souls, why should it matter what the two bodies are like?

[mskcan]

The following is an excerpt on this from Maskeen Ji's katha on Sri Charitropakhyan:

ਪਾਨੀ ਮੈਲਾ ਮਾਟੀ ਗੋਰੀ ॥

paanee mailaa maattee goree ||

The water of the sperm is cloudy, and the egg of the ovary is crimson.

ਇਸ ਮਾਟੀ ਕੀ ਪੁਤਰੀ ਜੋਰੀ ॥੧॥

eis maattee kee putharee joree ||1||

From this clay, the puppet is fashioned. ||1|| (Bhagat Kabir Ji, SGGS Ji)

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਕਰੇ ॥

maath pithaa sanjog oupaaeae rakath bindh mil pindd karae ||

Through the union of mother and father, the fetus is formed. The egg and sperm join together to make the body. (Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Ang 1013, SGGS Ji)

In this human body, there are some elements that are masculine in nature and others that are feminine. It is through the union of male and female a child is born, and thus has elements of both of them in him/her. Guru Nanak Dev Ji expresses it as:

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

purakh mehi naar naar mehi purakhaa boojhahu breham giaanee ||

The female is in the male, and the male is in the female. Understand this, O God-realized being! (Ang 879, SGGS Ji)

Those who consider them learned and big researchers, they should also understand this tukk. There is no such female that has no elements of male characteristics in her and similarly, there is no such man that has no female elements in him. The only reason a male has become a male is because the male elements in him are in majority as compared to the female elements. Similarly, a woman is a woman because the female elements in her are in majority in comparison to male elements. Thus, there is an incomplete father within a woman and an incomplete mother within a man. An incomplete mother wants to be complete, that is why a mother feels more attached to the male child than the girl child. Similarly, a male's bonding and attachment is with the female child than the male child. Guru Nanak Dev Ji clarifies this thought:

ਬਾਲ ਕੰਨਿਆ ਕੌ ਬਾਪੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਭਾਈ ਕੌ ਅਤਿ ਭਾਈ ॥

baal kanniaa ka baap piaaraa bhaaee ka ath bhaaee ||

The father is dear to his young daughter, and the brother is very dear to his brother. (Ang 596, SGGS Ji)

There are many areas that have not been explored, and when Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj explains them in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, many fools have got up and have started creating unnecessary commotion within Sikh Panth. They ask, "Is it appropriate to read Triya Charitars?" Of course, but also read the description of characters of males as told to us by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji Maharaj in Hiqayats. The corruption of mindset of both male and female and the combination of these mindsets will bring about such disastrous consequences. If a child has turned out to be bad, then it is the bad parents that are responsible, at least they were bad at that particular moment when that child's existence happened. Such parents may have corrected themselves, but surely they must have had bad qualities earlier when the child was conceived.

Amazing!

This is exactly in line with new epigenetics research in prenatal and peri-natal nurturing of children.

What the mother, and father, expose the child to even while the mother is pregnant influences the GENEs that form the

individuals psycho-social, and physical components of being!

The most glaringly obvious type is that when a child is born with a disability due to the mother consuming alcohol or other toxic substances.

But we rarely ever measure LOVE!. Love in the form of a calm, relaxed mother can help improve the child's development by 33%!

A classic study is that in a Romanian child orphanage, in which there were children who had their nutritional needs met, but were still smaller by 30% than their counterparts who had the loving affection of their parents. Love is the extra component, on top of a clean healthy environment, and proper nutrition, that affects the behaviour of a child.

[sall]

WJKK WJKF

Please check here for further clarification

http://www.sikhism101.com/node/137

[hkaurP]

edit- You can't really say a homosexual can or can't be a saint, what grounds do you have for this?

The reason why I say that a homosexual cannot become a saint is because we as humans and as Sikhs need to fight the 5 vices. I dont think anyone has the right to judge anyone else, but one of the 5 vices is Lust. When a homosexual decides to have a relationship with another homosexual then its all Lust/Kaam. If someone who is a homosexual but concentrates on Waheguru and the teachings of the Guru and doesnt let Lustful forces take him/her over then yes they can become Saints. Since I dont really know a lot in depth about this topic, this is what I think from the basics.

[Azaad]

The Akal Takhat has given a Hukamnama banning Gay marriages or relationships

http://amritsarbuzz.com/news/amritsar-news.php?read=Akal-Takht-bars-gay-marriages-in-gurdwaras

http://www.sikhnet.com/news/akal-takht-says-no-gay-relationships