Controversial Question.

[Guest Controversial]

I was talking to this guy, and he asked me something about the Gurus

This is controversial and that is why I have put it in Gupt.

1st statement – the gurus did not want women in power. None of the 10 gurus were a woman, if they believed in equality then they should have a woman Guru.

2nd Statement – Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted the power his father had. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, wanted his father out of the way so he could take over the sikh rule he wanted. He wanted to create the Army the way he wanted. With this he had all the power.

I do not agree with either of these statements and no way of proving otherwise. Except my true belief in our Gurus and what they have done, I do not have the knowledge to refute these claims.

Can some one help?

[Singh559]

Are you serious? You couldn't have replied such simple and petty questions without asking?

Sikhi teaches that men and woman are equal, just because a woman never became a Guru doesn't mean anything. It could be a thing of chance or something else, that's all there is to it.

As for Guru Ji, at a time where the Mughals would KILL Sikhs do you honestly think Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji would have such thoughts? Guru Ji's conviction was so powerful he was willing to let his family be shaheeds and he knew very well he could die as well. He fought every battle along with the Singhs and he knew he could have been assassinated at anytime.

Why would you ask such a question? Go research on your own religion and THEN ask questions. If you research and then can't find any answers you should ask here.

[Kaljug Singh]

I was talking to this guy, and he asked me something about the Gurus

This is controversial and that is why I have put it in Gupt.

1st statement – the gurus did not want women in power. None of the 10 gurus were a woman, if they believed in equality then they should have a woman Guru.

2nd Statement – Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted the power his father had. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, wanted his father out of the way so he could take over the sikh rule he wanted. He wanted to create the Army the way he wanted. With this he had all the power.

I do not agree with either of these statements and no way of proving otherwise. Except my true belief in our Gurus and what they have done, I do not have the knowledge to refute these claims.

Can some one help?

LOL, it sounds like something some benefit-claiming sullah doing "da'wah" would say. I guess Judeo-Christian God doesn't believe in equality either since all of his prophets were men.

Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur did not have a standing army. He was martyred by the Muslim Mughals who invaded India while Dasmesh Pita was young. The Khalsa was created by Akal Purakh to destroy the tyrannical rule of the Muslims.

The next time someone makes outrageous claims like that, simply ask them for the evidence of their claims so that you can consider and refute their claims. I guarantee that they will have no evidence beyond something that some illiterate paan-smuggling henna-stained-bearded inbred mullah from some thirld world country has told them.

K.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

1) The Khalsa has a father AND mother - Mata Sahib Kaur. Screams equality, never mind Gurbani holding up the honor of women. Think about it - Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Mata Sahib Kaur EQUAL status to himself as a parent to the Khalsa. How much more equality is needed?

2) Power? If Guru Gobind Singh Ji truly wanted power, he would have allied with the Mughals and crushed the Hindus out of existence. Rather, he chose to fight the Mughals and the Hindu Rajas in a purely defensive war that threatened the Panth's extinction (in the worldly sense - Khalsa is the Almighty's and will exist as long as the Almighty wills and is not subject to human attempts at its removal. It is a most unenviable position for a normal human to be in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's shoes - to fight such odds, to sacrifice everything and to still want the benefit of his Panth at the expense of his entire family.

To be that scheming would require a psychotic disorder at the age of 9, as that is when he humbly requested his father that he was the highest of souls worthy of challenging the Mughal empire's threat to exterminating the Hindus. Even then, the basic instincts of any parent is to save his/her children, even at the cost of other humans. Rather than this, Guru Sahib willingly sent his children to martyrdom and refused any special treatment for the elder Sahibzadas from his other Sikhs. The younger Sahibzadas, he made an exception for in the Zafarnama, not because of them being his children, but because of the sheer heinous nature of torturing and martyring innocent children, an abomination in any faith. To be strong enough to problaim that so what if 4 had passed away, that thousands still lived (meaning the Khalsa) shows a completely different profile from a scheming, murdering lunatic - it is the embodiment of a Saint Soldier. History is a testament to this.

[CaptainC]

1st statement – the gurus did not want women in power. None of the 10 gurus were a woman, if they believed in equality then they should have a woman Guru.

The reason that none of the Gurus were women is because if they had been, this Dharam wouldn’t have progressed this far. Not because women are any less but because of the mentality of the society at that time. God took form in 10 different bodies to bring a message to this corrupted world to lead them in the right direction and the only realistic forms they could have taken in order for society to listen is as a Man. Guru Nanak Dev Ji were the first to openly preach the greatness of a woman but mindsets cannot be changed overnight which is evident even today, 5 centuries later, as our elders don’t think twice before looking down on a woman and her capabilities. If this is the state of our people today, what must it have been then? If one Guru was to be a woman, they would not have been taken serious, most likely totally rejected.

[Only five]

1st statement – the gurus did not want women in power. None of the 10 gurus were a woman, if they believed in equality then they should have a woman Guru.

The reason that none of the Gurus were women is because if they had been, this Dharam wouldn't have progressed this far. Not because women are any less but because of the mentality of the society at that time. God took form in 10 different bodies to bring a message to this corrupted world to lead them in the right direction and the only realistic forms they could have taken in order for society to listen is as a Man. Guru Nanak Dev Ji were the first to openly preach the greatness of a woman but mindsets cannot be changed overnight which is evident even today, 5 centuries later, as our elders don't think twice before looking down on a woman and her capabilities. If this is the state of our people today, what must it have been then? If one Guru was to be a woman, they would not have been taken serious, most likely totally rejected.

This could be true for Guru Nanak Dev ji time and say up to Guru Arjan Dev ji's time, but Guru Sahib broke all the rituals and they would have done it. I say there is alot more to this than just simple mentality of people.

[Mehtab Singh]

1st statement – the gurus did not want women in power. None of the 10 gurus were a woman, if they believed in equality then they should have a woman Guru.

If someone like Bhagat Kabeer Jee, or Bhagat Naamdev Jee, or Bhagat Ravidas Jee, who belonged to what Brahmins call "lower caste" would preach equality of all human beings, what would people say? They would say "ah well he is a lower caste, he will obviously say so". But guess what, all the Guru Sahibaan were born in what the Brahmins believed to be a higher caste. Now check this out, the Gurus totally rejected the caste system, thereby giving a jolt to the very foundations of the caste system, thereby shocking all supporters of the caste system. Same way, if a bibi was 1 of our Gurus, and preached gender equality, people would laugh and say "ah there you go! a woman asking for gender equality!" But all the Gurus born in the male gender strongly advocated gender equality, thereby again giving a jolt to the very foundations of gender-based bias. Akal Purakh's plan was so perfect, that the Gurus (born in so-called high caste) rejected the caste system, and the same Gurus (born as men) rejected gender-based bias. Therefore both casteism and sexism got their biggest shock ever in human history.

2nd Statement – Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted the power his father had. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, wanted his father out of the way so he could take over the sikh rule he wanted. He wanted to create the Army the way he wanted. With this he had all the power.

In human history, its only the Guru Sahibaan who fought WITHOUT any desire for zar (wealth), zameen (lands), or zoru (woman). The power Gurujee had was that of Akaal Purakh, and He had it already. Saying that Gurujee wanted power is like saying the sun wanted light.

[buddasingh]

Does he also think they should have had a Black Guru, a Guru in a wheelchair, a Jewish Guru? Does he also believe that if God was good, there would be no pain? Tell him that his is an asinine statement and rather than making statements disguised as questions, he should sincerely ask questions and he will obtain answers.

You don't need to prove "otherwise" as neither statement resembles anything close to intelligent logic, let alone proof.

[Dilbag Landa]

Does he also think they should have had a Black Guru, a Guru in a wheelchair, a Jewish Guru? Does he also believe that if God was good, there would be no pain? Tell him that his is an asinine statement and rather than making statements disguised as questions, he should sincerely ask questions and he will obtain answers.

You don't need to prove "otherwise" as neither statement resembles anything close to intelligent logic, let alone proof.

lollllll

[SunSingh]

none of the gurus were women b/c no women passed the various tests. but of course, you can say that it was already pre-ordained who was to be Guru, i don't know. but i do know that women seemed to have had an equal shot at the tests.