Is Having Hair Mandatory In Sikhism?

[jaswinder singh]

i think we are drifting from the subject of thread

[santsevak]

i think we are drifting from the subject of thread

Quite right. I also was thinking of the same thing while going over it just now.

Coming back on topic though, I think I really like the reply by Wales85 which was the most practical given in the context. He is absolutely right that at this school age (teens till you go to a univ., where these petty considerations are usually not present) is the most crucial and impressionable. Peers will always find one excuse or another to pick at you. Facial hair and turban are just a bit more obvious targets. If you get rid of these, you will have to face similar problems for other obvious differences (skin color, non-brand clothes, accent, vocabulary, intelligence, stupidity, glasses, long height, short height, large weight, small weight, ... what have you). This is just part of that age. The real question should not be if I want to keep my hair, the question should be how do I stay clear and determined in my faith. If one cuts his/her hair under peer pressure, where does one draw the line? Drugs, cigarettes, binge drinking, promiscuity, shop lifting ... just to blend in one may have to indulge in all of these!

You see, this is not a question for a young Sikh, it is a question for any youth who is different from the "norm". Schools should be educating the kids so that these kind of behaviors are minimized, that all kids are alright even if they appear different. And that one has much higher goals in life than to compete for better clothes or to get laid most often last year, etc.

The moment we get comfortable with our appearance and accept that that is the way *we* like it and that is the way *all sane* people will like it too! People who pick on these kind of differences are just not yet mature enough.

Now, regarding if Sikhs must keep their hair. I honestly do not know the real answer now a days. Just having one's beard and kesh does not define a Sikh. Note that our gurus taught us that all religions are equal. So they accepted all of them. They also taught that God is one. Given these two teachings, one can conclude that the real goal of life should be to lead a good life for the betterment of all beings ... since all religions teach this in one way or another. Religion is just a choice of each person. Sikhs choose to be of a certain appearance. That doesn't mean people without beards are any lesser than others.

[hawk13]

Quite right. I also was thinking of the same thing while going over it just now.

Coming back on topic though, I think I really like the reply by Wales85 which was the most practical given in the context. He is absolutely right that at this school age (teens till you go to a univ., where these petty considerations are usually not present) is the most crucial and impressionable. Peers will always find one excuse or another to pick at you. Facial hair and turban are just a bit more obvious targets. If you get rid of these, you will have to face similar problems for other obvious differences (skin color, non-brand clothes, accent, vocabulary, intelligence, stupidity, glasses, long height, short height, large weight, small weight, ... what have you). This is just part of that age. The real question should not be if I want to keep my hair, the question should be how do I stay clear and determined in my faith. If one cuts his/her hair under peer pressure, where does one draw the line? Drugs, cigarettes, binge drinking, promiscuity, shop lifting ... just to blend in one may have to indulge in all of these!

You see, this is not a question for a young Sikh, it is a question for any youth who is different from the "norm". Schools should be educating the kids so that these kind of behaviors are minimized, that all kids are alright even if they appear different. And that one has much higher goals in life than to compete for better clothes or to get laid most often last year, etc.

The moment we get comfortable with our appearance and accept that that is the way *we* like it and that is the way *all sane* people will like it too! People who pick on these kind of differences are just not yet mature enough.

Now, regarding if Sikhs must keep their hair. I honestly do not know the real answer now a days. Just having one's beard and kesh does not define a Sikh. Note that our gurus taught us that all religions are equal. So they accepted all of them. They also taught that God is one. Given these two teachings, one can conclude that the real goal of life should be to lead a good life for the betterment of all beings ... since all religions teach this in one way or another. Religion is just a choice of each person. Sikhs choose to be of a certain appearance. That doesn't mean people without beards are any lesser than others.

But bro all sikh gurus were KESHADHARIS read the conversation of Guru Nanak ji with Bahruudin in Mecca in which Guru ji has said both hindus and muslims have become sirgum or headless with shorn hair u r speaking the language of radhasoamis ,noormehilas UNSHORN HAIR OR KESH IS FIRST TEST FOR SIKHI WHY WE PRAY TO KEEP KESH WITH BREATH, .Secondly Guru Gobind Singh ji told the bhai Nand lal singh ji THOSE SIKHS WHO CUTT THE HAIR OR TRIMS THE HAIR IS LIKE HAVING PHYSICAL RELATIONS WITH BLOOD RELATIONS. Guru Gobind Singh has further said those interacting with sirgums or clenshaven sikhs will be tankhias do not be slaves with other thinking. Ardass for sirgums can never be performed nor accepted , Person like u should attempt to be good sikhs do not try to be higher and greater than Guru jis

Gurfateh

[santsevak]

But bro all sikh gurus were KESHADHARIS read the conversation of Guru Nanak ji with Bahruudin in Mecca in which Guru ji has said both hindus and muslims have become sirgum or headless with shorn hair u r speaking the language of radhasoamis ,noormehilas UNSHORN HAIR OR KESH IS FIRST TEST FOR SIKHI WHY WE PRAY TO KEEP KESH WITH BREATH, .Secondly Guru Gobind Singh ji told the bhai Nand lal singh ji THOSE SIKHS WHO CUTT THE HAIR OR TRIMS THE HAIR IS LIKE HAVING PHYSICAL RELATIONS WITH BLOOD RELATIONS. Guru Gobind Singh has further said those interacting with sirgums or clenshaven sikhs will be tankhias do not be slaves with other thinking. Ardass for sirgums can never be performed nor accepted , Person like u should attempt to be good sikhs do not try to be higher and greater than Guru jis

Gurfateh

You are right in the sense that all Sikhs should not cut their hair. I am not contesting that. But the keyword is "should not".

If you read my post completely within the context, you will see I tried to make two points. The first was kids' behavior issues at teen years. Do you agree to point or not?

The second point was related to current issues with Sikhs and equality of religions. Have you been to the Punjab recently? More than 75% "Sikhs" have cut their hair in one form or another. If they are not Sikhs, it should be clarified. Are you familiar with the state of Sikhs outside the Punjab? I would wager that more than 95% have cut their kesh. Are they still Sikhs? Moreover, are non-amritdharis also Sikhs? Who is a Sikh? On the flip side, our gurus have taught us that all religions of the world are equal. Do you agree?

There is another point I tried to make, just having Kesh does not make you a Sikh. Based on a Sikh religion, is may be considered as a necessary condition but it is by no means sufficient one. On a human level, being a non-Sikh does not make you any lesser of a human being. All human are created equal, as taught by our gurus.

Please reply by reading my whole reply and do not pick any part out of context. This helps in a mature and thoughtful discussion, instead of fanatical claims and fear mongering.

ਚਡ਼੍ਹਦੀ ਕਲਾ।

[Bundha]

Quite right. I also was thinking of the same thing while going over it just now.

Now, regarding if Sikhs must keep their hair. I honestly do not know the real answer now a days. Just having one's beard and kesh does not define a Sikh. Note that our gurus taught us that all religions are equal. So they accepted all of them. They also taught that God is one. Given these two teachings, one can conclude that the real goal of life should be to lead a good life for the betterment of all beings ... since all religions teach this in one way or another. Religion is just a choice of each person. Sikhs choose to be of a certain appearance. That doesn't mean people without beards are any lesser than others.

It is a totally false argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal. Guru Ji's respected other faiths

even gave their lives for them but never said all religions are equal, else what would be the reason for Sikhi ?

From its very inception, Gurmat (the Guru’s Path) has been declared a unique and distinct path and this includes the physical outter appearance of a sikh, it is the Hukam of Guru Ji that we keep and maintain unshorn hair, there is no ambiguity about this, it is relevant in this day an age as it was then.

Bhai Gurdaas jee writes: “In the world, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji established the authority (of his doctrines) and started a Path (of religion), devoid of any impurity.” (Vaar 1, Pauree 45 – Bhai Gurdaas Ji)

The claim that all paths lead to the same goal is covered in Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh ji’s book ‘Anhad Shabad Dasam Duar - Open discussion of unstruck ethereal music at tenth door of divine-abode’ - pages 46-47:

QUOTE

"The Liberation-state of Gurmat is unique and different in concept from other religious faiths. Liberation is not the mere ending-up of the human body or just an escapement of the soul from its bodily cage. Some envisage liberation as riddance from afflictions associated with the human body. They believe liberation is unattainable as so long as the soul is caged within the human body. Others identify liberation as the fulfillment of their desires to abide in a heavenly abode. However, this kind of liberation falls very short compared to the Gurmat concept of liberation. Liberation is not the banishment of imagined pain and sorrow, nor can it be described as the disassociation of the soul-being from materialism. Yogic faith conceives liberation as empty consciousness through meditational practices that bear no semblance to the Gurmat concept. Vedantic faith believes in the removal of duality to arrive at oneness with The Absolute, in order to be liberated. Buddhism believes liberation to be a state of total renunciation of desire and negative thought - Nirvana. Jainism considers that non-violence and non-killing leads to liberation. Mere escape from transmigration is not the essence of True Liberation....Gurmat considers the above listed forms of liberation as halfway and incomplete. The swan-bird Gurmukhs who are blessed with Divine Enlightenment reject all these forms. They merge with The Divine Immaculate Light whilst living; they envision The Glorious Lord in full Divine Splendor.

Gurmukhs are sustained by the nourishment of Naam-Divine, while they behold The Lord at all times. They find True Liberation within this Love-Divine...Their Liberation lies in the sole occupation of Naam-Devotion, in accordance with Gurmat. This supreme state is reached through complete dedication, when one takes refuge within The Guru...what is not sought is a form of liberation devoid of God-Realisation."

If we use this viewpoint to analyse some mainstream schools of thought, we may reach the following conclusions:

In Hindu or Vedantic traditions, Liberation = various states according to different schools i.e. freedom from transmigration, realisation of self as God (Sohang) etc. In Buddhism, Liberation = escape from desires / realisation of the nature of self / Nirvana. In Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Liberation = heavenly abode

In Sikhism, Liberation = absorption into Waheguru/Naam, the destruction of self/ego, the merging of Aatma (soul) into ParAatma (Universal Soul) - all of which can only be achieved through complete dedication to The Guru's teachings.

The concept of equality exemplified by Sikhi is not the result of a debate concerning religions. The Sikh concept of equality is an inward and outward acceptance of all and seeing everyone as a soul with the same divine father, rather than religious labels, which results directly from the practice of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee's teachings.When it comes to true enlightenment, or liberation, Guru jee is very clear about its unique nature and definition within Gurmat; and in doing so we are taught who and what really is The True Teacher. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji over and over stresses the importance of "Gurmat Naam". Without Gurmat Naam no one can merge in Waheguru or reach ‘Sach Khand’ (the spiritual Realm of Truth). In the House of Guru Nanak only Naam is found, the only tool to experience and merge into God.

[santsevak]

It is a totally false argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal. Guru Ji's respected other faiths

even gave their lives for them but never said all religions are equal, else what would be the reason for Sikhi ?

From its very inception, Gurmat (the Guru’s Path) has been declared a unique and distinct path and this includes the physical outter appearance of a sikh, it is the Hukam of Guru Ji that we keep and maintain unshorn hair, there is no ambiguity about this, it is relevant in this day an age as it was then.

Bhai Gurdaas jee writes: “In the world, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji established the authority (of his doctrines) and started a Path (of religion), devoid of any impurity.” (Vaar 1, Pauree 45 – Bhai Gurdaas Ji)

<SNIP>

Thank you for a very interesting reply and related quotes. I suppose this is going to give me new material to learn!

I have some very important question regarding what you wrote, but I do not want to stray from topic at hand. So, regarding the question of hair, where do we stand based on what you wrote? It appears that it should be an open and shut case, kesh cutting => straying from path of joining with God as recommended by Sikh religion => not a Sikh.

On a related note, what are your views regarding most Sikhs cutting their hair in their youth (for any number of reasons, but generally for perceived convenience and looks) and then "rediscovering" the path of Sikhi in older life and suddenly turning into absolutes and telling everyone else not to cut their hair.

ਚਡ਼੍ਹਦੀ ਕਲਾ।

[MansWisdom]

All religions are not equal but all can meet waheguru. The reason they are not equal is the differences in rehit(code of conduct), such as in this topic's case cutting hair and eating meat etc. All these weaknesses in rehit affect a person's kamai(spirtual attainment) as these acts are sin. Also in the above post it mentions about Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's description on the believes of other religions on liberation or heaven. But a person in any particular religion may have a fixed believe of how heaven and liberation will happen however if she or he starts to fully commit to their religion and starts praying a lot and starts building their kamai they will start to lose their ego, desires and start getting the gift of self realisation. This knowledge will enhance a devotees thinking and reasoning and their minds will start to mould to the believe of what gurbani mentions about liberation(sachkand). But Sikhi is a gift when waheguru himself came as guru avatar to help and destroy the mirage of believes and false acts people had accumalated over time when practising their religion, which had made their progress of self realisation very difficult by acts of cutting their hair, eating meat, false rituals etc.

so the Guru's had made sikhi to correct the rehit of others and challenge the believe system of many so they could aid them to a faster path to sachkhand(liberation). As you got to remember if other religions couldn't meet waheguru then the Guru's would of destroyed all the religions in the world! and why would Guru Teg Bahadar Ji take shaheed to save the whole of hinduisim from being circumcised(Being converted to islam). Guru Ji could of easily have said you have no chance to meet waheguru in this life and could of said don't worry in your next live I will make you sikh so you can go to sachkand. But no, all religions can meet waheguru.

Ok you maybe thinking that why not be a part of another religion if they can all meet waheguru the answer is that it is more harder to get to sachkand and merge with the supreme due to the differences and possible weaknesses in rehit. This life is a golden ticket given by waheguru and is 1 out of 8.4 million to get this life again. So why would you want to be part of another religion than sikhi, which is the fastest route to waheguru as each swas(breath) is important and why waste it!!!

Like sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa says

"If your a sikh be a true sikh"

"If your a muslim be a true muslim"

"If your a hindu be a true hindu"

The reason why all religions can meet waheguru is the ability of a person to feel love towards waheguru

"Sach keao sun leho sabhe jin prem kio tin he prab paio"

The truth in meeting waheguru is through pure love

Any way back to the original point of the topic, which is hair. Of course hair is compulsary in sikhi as it shows descipline and love to guru ji/waheguru.

But more important for sikh to take amrit and follow rehit is this, which I don't think has been mentioned in this thread.

The concept is that no sikh of the guru will fall into narak(hell). The reason is that taking amrit and growing hair is a sign for guru ji if any sikh

falls into hell by chance then he/she will be pulled out by their kes. (There is a sakhi on this where Guru Gobind singh showed someone who was doubting amrit and not keeping hair but I won't mention it now as this post will get massive.)

But like I said before all religions can meet waheguru is for e.g. Bhai Nand Lal who was of different religion did not take amrit and had the same avasta (spirtual state) as Sant jarnail singh Khalsa bhindrawale of abnasi darshan (seeing waheguru everywhere and was sachkandi already). But the sikhs did not like this and they took him to Guru Gobind singh ji and guru gobind singh told him why you should take amrit about being pulled out of narak(as mentioned above) and bhai nand lal ji said if I fall in hell please grab me by my ears and pull me out lol. The Guru knew bhai nand lal Ji's avasta and didn't look down on him as the guru already knew he was already in liberated(sachkand).

So hopefully I have cleared the doubts about keeping your hair and why all religions can meet waheguru.

PEACE OUT

I mean pyaraho sadh sangat ji haji newaji je ahia noo Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!!!!

[santsevak]

All religions are not equal but all can meet waheguru. The reason they are not equal is the differences in rehit(code of conduct), such as in this topic's case cutting hair and eating meat etc. All these weaknesses in rehit affect a person's kamai(spirtual attainment) as these acts are sin. Also in the above post it mentions about Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's description on the believes of other religions on liberation or heaven. But a person in any particular religion may have a fixed believe of how heaven and liberation will happen however if she or he starts to fully commit to their religion and starts praying a lot and starts building their kamai they will start to lose their ego, desires and start getting the gift of self realisation. This knowledge will enhance a devotees thinking and reasoning and their minds will start to mould to the believe of what gurbani mentions about liberation(sachkand). But Sikhi is a gift when waheguru himself came as guru avatar to help and destroy the mirage of believes and false acts people had accumalated over time when practising their religion, which had made their progress of self realisation very difficult by acts of cutting their hair, eating meat, false rituals etc.

Very nice!

BTW, I thought it was clearly understood and obvious that by "equal" I did not mean to be equal in the literal sense, but in the sense of their equivalence to show people the right path and for peoples' right to practice them. You have nicely elaborated what I had in my mind when I wrote that all religions are equal.

And thanks for the counter examples showing that all religions were considered by our gurus to be equally important religions for their respective followers. From Sikh history, it is clear that Sikhs never forced anyone else to turn to Sikhi (as did Mughals tried to convert people to Islam, e.g.). It was that people turned to Sikhi of their own volition.

I hope this settles the issue of whether only Sikhi is a true religions or all religions are "equal".

Now, coming back to the topic at hand, where do we go from here when only a tiny minority of Sikhs has retained their Kesh? Is Kesh practical anymore? I understand the theories that been put forward (oh, btw, I don't think Sikhi has any concept of heaven or hell, everything is right here in person's life), but today's picture is very different. I have been noticing that the usual practice for the youth is to cut their hair when it is more convenient and to to keep them later when the pressures have died down. As real life examples, I know a number of older people who cut their hair when they went abroad from the Punjab, did their jobs, earned their living, but in later life, usually after retirement, they started to keep their Kesh and giving sermons on Sikhi in gurudwaras. Clearly, at that time they were not subject to social pressures which they were in earlier part of lives. I am not sure how to resolve this. If the justification is that "Oh, life was tough for them at that time," then that just doesn't cut it. One only has to think about the Ardas we do regularly in Gurdwaras to see what sacrifices people actually went through for not cutting their hair.

In short, the general perception in today's Sikhs seems to be that it is okay to cut your hair yet believe in Sikhism. Very sad and unfortunate, but this is a fact of life today. Even in a gurdwaras in the UK or North America on Sundays, one can count Sikhs with unshorn hair on one hand. Situation in India is not as bad, but it is not rosy either there!

As far as can I see, Sikhs with unshorn hair are dwindling away.

[hawk13]

You are right in the sense that all Sikhs should not cut their hair. I am not contesting that. But the keyword is "should not".

If you read my post completely within the context, you will see I tried to make two points. The first was kids' behavior issues at teen years. Do you agree to point or not?

The second point was related to current issues with Sikhs and equality of religions. Have you been to the Punjab recently? More than 75% "Sikhs" have cut their hair in one form or another. If they are not Sikhs, it should be clarified. Are you familiar with the state of Sikhs outside the Punjab? I would wager that more than 95% have cut their kesh. Are they still Sikhs? Moreover, are non-amritdharis also Sikhs? Who is a Sikh? On the flip side, our gurus have taught us that all religions of the world are equal. Do you agree?

There is another point I tried to make, just having Kesh does not make you a Sikh. Based on a Sikh religion, is may be considered as a necessary condition but it is by no means sufficient one. On a human level, being a non-Sikh does not make you any lesser of a human being. All human are created equal, as taught by our gurus.

Please reply by reading my whole reply and do not pick any part out of context. This helps in a mature and thoughtful discussion, instead of fanatical claims and fear mongering.

ਚਡ਼੍ਹਦੀ ਕਲਾ।

These r not fanatical claims these r facts admitted and recogined by court in definition of sikh case no 1 Guru has said Rehat PYRARI MUGH KO SIKH PYRA NAHIN .U talk about the people cutting kesh they r Sirgums Rehat Nama and historic facts r dictated by Guru ji. No2 Khalsa is Supreme Khalsa Akalpukurkarh ki fauj Sikhism is Supreme AS GOD HAS GIVEN HIS OWN APPEARANCE TO KHALSA HOW CAN OTHER RELIF\GIONS EQUAL TO SIKHI .As far as people cutting hair is concened u r twisting the facts go and visit Mahaastra ,delhi , M.p . In jabalpur anand karaj of shorn sikhs have been refused by local sangat 2 years back in mubai a barat was refused permission by local gurdwara as gromm was a hindu. Each human being is a sikh and sikh can never be a fanatic those very Khalsa gave ideal rule where every community was safe during Banda Singh Bahadur time,Misal rule and Maharaja Ranji Singh times, while anti religion left rule excesses in china ,east germany and Russia r welknown . Then why main sikh prayer demands sikhi with kesh ? Numbers are immaterial after Ranjit Singh sikhs reduced from 1.5 crores to 8 to 10 lacs but this is quality of sikhi . Each human being is born sikh with unshorn hair .If yonug people indulge in anti sikh acts it is due to lack of propagation or out side influence one should be strong enough and wellarae of sikh history,traditions Iam sorry to say those sheds the kesh or eeal of guru r sirgums and this is word of Guru not me and we r nobody to change or misinterpert the sikhi. Sikh is true son of Akalpukarkh . and have appearence of god.

[santsevak]

These r not fanatical claims these r facts admitted and recogined by court in definition of sikh case no 1 Guru has said Rehat PYRARI MUGH KO SIKH PYRA NAHIN .

1. Can you please cite where this is stated as fact by a court of law? Also, which court? Please be complete and exact.

2. Can you please properly cite where you got the above pangti from?

I am genuinely interested.

U talk about the people cutting kesh they r Sirgums Rehat Nama and historic facts r dictated by Guru ji. No2 Khalsa is Supreme Khalsa Akalpukurkarh ki fauj Sikhism is Supreme AS GOD HAS GIVEN HIS OWN APPEARANCE TO KHALSA HOW CAN OTHER RELIF\GIONS EQUAL TO SIKHI .

Please refer to recent responses in this thread. We have already established what we mean by "equal" in terms of religions of this world. If you can find something in SGGS that actually clearly contradicts that, please quote is properly here (I am sure you won't find anything).

As far as people cutting hair is concened u r twisting the facts go and visit Mahaastra ,delhi , M.p . In jabalpur anand karaj of shorn sikhs have been refused by local sangat 2 years back in mubai a barat was refused permission by local gurdwara as gromm was a hindu.

Which facts are you talking about that I have twisted? The examples you have quoted just show that couple of cases in which people did not want to accept people with shorn hair as Sikhੇ. The second case is irrelevant, since it involved a non-Sikh. The fact I stated is that by far the vast majority of Sikh youths today are cutting their hair and doing way will full beard and turbans. And only a miniscule minority outside of the Punjab supports unshorn hair. How can you refute this fact? The examples you quotes are quite irrelevant to this actually.

Each human being is a sikh

Similarly, each human being is of a religion to which his/her parents belong. As I said before, and I state again, just having unshorn hair does not make you Sikh, it might be a necessary condition to be a Sikh, but it is definitely not a sufficient one. Which part of this do you not understand?

and sikh can never be a fanatic those very Khalsa gave ideal rule where every community was safe during Banda Singh Bahadur time,Misal rule and Maharaja Ranji Singh times, while anti religion left rule excesses in china ,east germany and Russia r welknown . Then why main sikh prayer demands sikhi with kesh ? Numbers are immaterial after Ranjit Singh sikhs reduced from 1.5 crores to 8 to 10 lacs but this is quality of sikhi . Each human being is born sikh with unshorn hair .If yonug people indulge in anti sikh acts it is due to lack of propagation or out side influence one should be strong enough and wellarae of sikh history,traditions Iam sorry to say those sheds the kesh or eeal of guru r sirgums and this is word of Guru not me and we r nobody to change or misinterpert the sikhi. Sikh is true son of Akalpukarkh . and have appearence of god.

From what I have able to understand, you are of the opinion that whoever cuts his/her hair is not a Sikh. And I accept this as your opinion, no problem here at all.

Also, could you please use proper English grammar and punctuation? It makes it difficult to understand you otherwise. But if you are more comfortable writing in Gurmukhi (I am sure you are), that would be even better. In fact, it would be awesome!

ਚਡ਼੍ਹਦੀ ਕਲਾ।