Punjab Is Changing Fast

[sarntuhari]

The Sikh movement to get a Punjabi speaking state in India left out Haryana and Himachal Pradesh Sikhs.

Today Christians are 7% in Gurdaspur and Hindus are majority in Jalandhar and Hoshiarpur.

Ludhiana is bombarded by migrants from Bihar and Hindus no longer fear Sikhs in Amritsar.

Sikhs can survive all this but the demographics of Punjab is changing fast.

[Sikhistan]

Punjab is being raped from its resources by outsiders. Huge decline of culture, language & history. In next 20 years Punjab will be left with no water & no trees.

[sarntuhari]

In next 20 years Punjab will be left with no water & no trees.

Our Nagar Kirtans could be replaced by Santa and Christmas trees because of some blind Hindus.

Mob Sought To Burn Alive Two Christian Families in Batala Church: Report

BATALA,

The Punjab police are hiding the fact that hoodlums of rightwing Hindu groups in Batala tried to burn five Christians alive.

According to a report released March 2 by a fact-finding team, which visited Jalandhar, Ludhiana, Amritsar and Gurdaspur districts, including villages deep in the rural hinterland from February 22-25, and Chandigarh, the Christians were from two families who live in the Church of North India’s (CNI) historic Church of the Epiphany compound built in 1865.

The team included All India Christian Council (AICC) secretary general John Dayal, AICC Delhi regional secretary Rev. Madhu Chandra, Human Rights Law Network lawyer M. Adeeb and AICC assistant Marang Hansda.

Batala is a small business town in Punjab’s Gurdaspur district. On February 20, the CNI church was set on fire and all its furniture burnt. Attempts were made to destroy a nearby Salvation Army church, raised in 1958, where the pastor was seriously injured.

“We pleaded with the police to help, but they did not,” said Pastor Maj. Gurnam Singh.

Even as the larger group of attackers focused on burning the CNI church, a group of men armed with sticks and rods came to the CNI deacon’s house. The deacon, Victor Gill, and his wife Parveen, hid themselves under the bed. The assailants damaged the doors, tried to enter the room forcibly, and told the couple they would be burnt alive if they did not come out, the report finds.

Meanwhile, at a second CNI house, the group overturned a scooter, took out petrol and doused teacher Christopher Morris and his daughter Daisy with the fuel while the mother, Usha, cringed in their home. They tried to set the two on fire, but the matchbox had also been soaked in the petrol and despite three attempts to strike a match, the matchsticks would not ignite saving the family from being burnt alive. The police were watching. The fire brigade came later but was blocked by a mob for quite some time.

Police Bias: No police report has been filed on the attempted murders even as the top police and administrative officers enforced a one-sided “peace accord” on the local Christian leadership.

Christians were instructed not to press for charges immediately so that a number of Christian youths who were arrested--together with a few Hindu men--could be released.

The strategy of the assailants was eerily reminiscent of what was practised and perfected against churches in Orissa in 2008.

Police forcibly cleaned up the Church of the Epiphany. They removed burnt furniture and made the presbyter whitewash the walls to remove traces of fuel oil used in the blaze. This was done before a formal inquiry could be conducted by the government.

Violence background: The Christians, all of them of Dalit origin, were trying to enforce a closure or “bandh” in Batala markets to protest a blasphemous picture of Jesus Christ holding a can of beer in one hand a lit cigarette in another which appeared on roadside banners to celebrate the Hindu ‘Ram Nauvmi’ festival. The banners were sponsored by a coalition of local political, media and business leaders, together with the trading community which is almost entirely Hindu.

The Sangh Parivar reacted to the Christian protest by mobilising shopkeepers and youth in attacks that left many injured, two churches damaged, and clergy traumatised.

The fact-finding team noted that local shopkeepers routinely enforce closures e.g. a bandh during the last week of February to protest the execution of two Sikhs by the Taliban in Pakistan.

Police reaction: The police force was outnumbered and looked on during the violence.

Despite intelligence reports of the Christian anger and the Hindutva plans to counterattack, the sub-divisional magistrate of Batala, Rahul Chaba, PCS, said he could not enforce a quick curfew until late February 20 because most of the police force were sent to the Pakistani border nearby where Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram inaugurated a defence outpost.

By the time the police returned and a curfew was imposed, violence had already occurred. The curfew was relaxed February 22.

Results of violence: On February 21, protest rallies were held across the western districts of Punjab and in Chandigarh against the desecration of the churches. There were reports of police who broke up protest meetings in villages with lathi charges and indiscriminate arrests. At present, there are no Christians or Hindus in police custody barring the printer and publisher of the banners.

On February 23, Punjab Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal assured the AICC’s John Dayal, a member of the National Integration Council, that he viewed the matter seriously and has ordered officials to unravel the “entire conspiracy”. Dayal demanded a judicial enquiry into the incidents during the meeting.

Punjab’s Christian population is around 300,000, about 1.2% of the state population, mostly concentrated in Amritsar and villages in west Punjab. The government is Akali-BJP coalition elected in February 2007.

[Guest andrewlatti]

Why are people concerned with change? Whether we want it or not change will take place. Nature changes so do we. If you are wanting to conserve Sikh values then please continue to do so as individuals or as a family, but let everyone else enjoy their freedom to choose whether they want to be mona sikhs, hindus, or christians. Have you forgotten your Guru Nanak's philosophy? that material things matter not in the present because we can never conserve them forever. In fact we need those bhaiyas in punjab and those christians and hindus have been living among the Sikh for hundreds of years. it is their land as well. Stop worrying and practice your faith.

[PAL 07]

so why not let britain become islamified

[Guest andrewlatti]

was spain not islamified during the medieval period? if britain will have majority of muslims then of-course there is no doubt it will be islamified, but that doesn't mean we should resent the muslims. how would you stop england from becoming islamified?

so why not let britain become islamified

[Trying to be Khalsa]

The Sikh movement to get a Punjabi speaking state in India left out Haryana and Himachal Pradesh Sikhs.

Today Christians are 7% in Gurdaspur and Hindus are majority in Jalandhar and Hoshiarpur.

Ludhiana is bombarded by migrants from Bihar and Hindus no longer fear Sikhs in Amritsar.

Sikhs can survive all this but the demographics of Punjab is changing fast.

Yup . something drastic is gonna happen in next 10 years . this is what my inner voice tells me .

muk jaano zaalmo tussi

khalsa naiyo mukkna

[PAL 07]

Andrewlatti you raised two questions a) dont resent muslims b)how do you deal with islamification

here are your answers and best solution:

1) We shouldn't resent Muslims yes, provided they accept publically and officially (in the UK) that they don't forcefully convert people and that they dont have pro- terrorists ideology and that all non muslims are not kafirs who must be dealt with. If muslims treat non muslims as there enemy then how can they not get resentment.

2) A Govt body should be created to scrutinise and monitor all islamic schools/mosques etc ensuring there is no islamification preaching and any other malpractice such as fraud and support of terrorist organisations.

No powers from central government should be given to muslims such as ability to create own sharia courts etc.

BUT HERES THE PROBLEM WILL MUSLIMS ACCEPT ANY OF THE ABOVE???

NO THUS A CONFLICT RESULTING IN ALL MUSLIMS WHO DON'T ACCEPT A GOVERNMENT RESOLUTION

BEING KICKED OUT.

[Guest andrewlatti]

When you refer to "muslims", average joe would think all muslims are terrorists, whereas you should categorize the radical muslims in order to separate the peaceful muslims. Why should the muslims publicly accept something that they do not practice or place enough emphasis on? (talking about the peaceful muslims). It is like saying all caucasians in the United States should publicly accept that they do not have the intentions of massacring the blacks or natives once again? Its disgraceful and disrespectful for those people to stand in front of some crowd and admit they wont forcefully convert people. Are you kidding me? If 'some' muslims do treat non-muslims as their enemy then the question is are we not all resentful towards one race or another? I can understand the seizing of those muslims who actually commit violent acts but why should the state arrest those who attack verbally? Isn't there something called freedom of speech.

If a govt. body is created specifically to examine "ALL"(you are using the word ALL, that is absurdity brother) muslim schools/mosques then you might as well call UK the modern Nazi regime. Please apply the same case to Sikhs and ask yourself the same question, would it be right for the govt. to inquire into all gurudwaras/schools because of some radical sikhs speaking against the west? I am not much aware of UK politics but I can assure you that sharia wont take place in england. No freaking way, especially the United States being an ally of UK.

Those are not SOLUTIONS, but MORE PROBLEMS for the state. If it was that easy to solve this, the govt. would have attempted such methods already. Anyway lets stick to the Sikhs in punjab topic.

Andrewlatti you raised two questions a) dont resent muslims b)how do you deal with islamification

here are your answers and best solution:

1) We shouldn't resent Muslims yes, provided they accept publically and officially (in the UK) that they don't forcefully convert people and that they dont have pro- terrorists ideology and that all non muslims are not kafirs who must be dealt with. If muslims treat non muslims as there enemy then how can they not get resentment.

2) A Govt body should be created to scrutinise and monitor all islamic schools/mosques etc ensuring there is no islamification preaching and any other malpractice such as fraud and support of terrorist organisations.

No powers from central government should be given to muslims such as ability to create own sharia courts etc.

BUT HERES THE PROBLEM WILL MUSLIMS ACCEPT ANY OF THE ABOVE???

NO THUS A CONFLICT RESULTING IN ALL MUSLIMS WHO DON'T ACCEPT A GOVERNMENT RESOLUTION

BEING KICKED OUT.

[inderking]

Do you live in the UK.

If most of the Mulslim community and the mosques support the Jihad against the west, then why should't the goverment monitor them.

Sharia law is already implemented in the UK when it comes to divorce.... Unqualified racist, sexist men ruling of divorce ? what is the goverment thinking?