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Manmohan Singh Tells Us To Move On


BDhariwal
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Since i am Amritdhari Sikh from Khaas Amritsar, I always get litlle agonised' why Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindrawale and Group used Shri Harmandir Sahib as a Protection cell where they made barracks to attack indian Army. They could have used some other place out from Golden Temple; We got Much hurted when we found Indian Army is going to attack Harmandir Sahib(Main Centre of SIkhism Religion). Baba deep singh ji sacrificed his Life to stop the attack of abdalis on Harimandir.Sant jarnail singh ji could have used some other Army camp to attack the Army, WHY SHRI HARIMANDIR SAHIB??????????????.

They did not attack anybody. They died defending the Temple. Do you feel agonised that the vastly superior Indian Army did not explore other options to capture Sant Bhindranwale? Why did they bring Tanks? Did you see the army choppers hovering in skies of Punjab with mounted artillary. Was Sant Bhinderanwale present in Muktsar Gurdwara? Why was heavy artillary fired into Mukatsar gurdwara? Do you know how many Sikhs were blasted by Tanks on GT road near Amritsar?

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Defending the temple???

when their mainhold was in the complex of Harimandir sahib? How do u expect Indian Army attacking some other Complex than harimandir sahib. They attacked Shri Muktsar sahib; they knew it that is also the main hold of Sant ji's Supporters.

My Simple question was: WHY SHRI HARIMANDIR SAHIB complex WAS CHOOSEN BY SANT JI AND GROUP to turn into Army Camp. they could have choosen some other House or place outside from the Harimandir sahib complex.

WESTLONDON SINGH JI,

Please support you facts.

it is strange why Guru Gobind singh ji never organised Army from/in the complex of harimandir sahib. Sikh history is Evidence the place where Sikh army is Oranised is known as 'QILAS' not 'SIKH Temples'

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This is also true that Akali SInghs(Current known as SGPC) never wanted santji to control Sikh Community. they were afraid that Santji might control Akal Takhat bcz of the majority support from Punjab Public. Sikh Traitors within Sikh Community never wanted to support Santji's Views.

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it is strange why Guru Gobind singh ji never organised Army from/in the complex of harimandir sahib. Sikh history is Evidence the place where Sikh army is Oranised is known as 'QILAS' not 'SIKH Temples'

I do hope, Mohinder Pal, you're not attempting to give us a lecture in basic Punjabi words. Common knowledge words such as 'quilla' for 'fort' ? Because that would embarrassing all 'round.

I would though, be greatly appreciative if you would answer this question : Seeing as you are quick to criticise an armed to the teeth Sant Bhindrawale because the rulers of the day (Indian Government) invaded it on June 4 1984 on the pretext of supressing an armed revolt , would it not be correct for us to assume that you would remain true to your thinking and ideals and criticise Guru Hargobind Ji for being armed to teeth in the Golden temple complex on April 13th 1634 thus resulting in the rulers of the day (the Mughals) invading it on the pretext of suppressing an armed revolt ?

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i remember this article i read, where it had a quote from a high ranking police officer in amritsar who said that he could of got sant ji out just in 10 mins just by sending in two amritdhari police officers to persuade him to come out. I also read a story where sant ji himself said he would give himself up to two gursikh amritdhari police officers, but he also said as soon as the hindu fauj steps one foot in the complex in the thought of killing, looting, raping, etc then we will give them a retaliation that they never knew was possible!

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WestLondon SIngh ji,

As i said earliar, Please Support you References of 6th Patshahi Battle in 1634,

In SIkh History, We have Following Battles Fought by our Guruji;

Ist Battle:

The first war took place at Pipli Sahib in Amritsar in May, 1628. Shah Jahan’s falcon was the cause of war. Shah Jahan ordered Gulam Rasool Khan of Lahore to capture and produce the Guru and the falcon. About 500 sikhs led by Bhai Bidhi Chand, Praana, Jetha, Pairha and Pandhe Khan faced the Mugal army of 5000 soldiers. The Mugal forces ran away after the death of Gulam Rasool Khan and other 2 commanders and the Guru came out victorious.

Angered at his defeat, Shah Jahan immediately ordered for another attack. Just after 10 days Subedar of Kashmir, Muklas Khan, and other commanders like Bahadur Khan, Kalandar Khan, Mirza Tahar Beg, Kale Khan, Shams Khan with 15000 soldiers attacked Amritsar. Bhai Bidhi Chand, Bhallan, Jattu, Painde Khan along with about 5000 Sikhs were with the Guru. The Sikh army took shelter in the fort Loh Garh, at Amritsar. It was first time, a cannon made out of a hollow trunk of a tree was used by the sikh army. After a wall of the fort was damaged by the cannons of the Mugal forces, the Sikhs came out in open. The fight spread in the city of Amritsar and the city was looted by the Mugals. The sikhs of various villages from all sides started rushing to the city with their weapons. The Guru himself took part in the fight. Mukhlas Khan challanged the Guru to face him. He lost his life at the hands of the Guru and thus the field was in the hands of Sikhs. Five Mugal generals and on the Guru’s side Bhai Bhana, Baga, Sobha, Bhagan, Dhama Chand gave away their lives.

It was the time of marriage of Bibi Veero, Guru Ji’s daughter. Within this war time Guru Sahib’s family was shifted to Jhabaal, a village South- East of Amritsar and next day marriage was conducted.

IInd Battle: After the marriage of his daughter and the war at Amritsar, Guru Sahib came to Kartar pur and then moved to Har Gobind Pura. Har Gobind Pura was founded by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in the name of his son Har Gobind. In 1630, Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji went to this place to make a protective wall around the town. While looking at the bad relations between the Guru and Shah Jahan and taking advantage of this Bhagwan Chand Khatri, a close relative of Dewaan Chandu and tax collector for the Mugals, warned the Guru and the sikhs to go away from there. Daily one after the other day he started coming and abusing sikhs as well as Sikh Gurus. Even beating by sikhs could not stop his abuses. Ultimately he was beaten to death. His son Ratan Chand, sons of Chandu, and Meharban a cousin of Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji and son of Prithi Chand, instigated Abdulla Khan, Subedar of Jallandar to attack the Guru at Har Gobind Pura. Without consent of Shah Jahan, Abdulla Khan, along with eight commanders and the Khatri enemies of the guru with about 20000 soldiers attacked the forces of the Guru. Ratan Chand , Karam chand and Abdulla khan came face to face with Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib fought with all the three and killed them one after the other.

IIIrd Battle: After Bhai Bidhi Chand had recovered Guru’s horses from Lahore, a third war took place in 1631 at Mehraj, near Nathane ki Dhab, now called Guru Sar. Lalla Beg and Kammar Beg with about 20000 soldiers challenged the Guru’s forces. After severe fight when Lalla Beg was killed, the Mugal forces took to their heels.

IVth Battle: Painde Khan was brought up by the Guru since his childhood and he bravely took part in the wars by the side of the guru. In 1632, at the instigation of his relatives, other Muslim enemies of the Guru and of his own ego of strength and power, he revolted and became enemy of the guru. Even Dhir Mall, son of Baba Gurditta joined the Mugal forces and was traitor to his father and grand father Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji. Thus Kale Khan commander of Jallundar, Paindhe Khan ,Dhir Mall and the like Khatries challanged the sikhs at Kartar pur. Bhai Bidhi Chand, Baba Gurditta, young Teg Bahadar (the would be 9th guru at that time) took part in the war. In the field, at the hands of Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji, his mentor, Painde Khan was fatally injured. Lying injured at the feet of the Guru, he asked for his forgiveness, the Guru blessed him and reminded him to read Kalma, the Muslim way of prayer before departing.

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Guest amar_jkp

And I don't know why Non-pindu non- jatts like u don't learn how to read before you go off on one. If you did...youd've been able to read that I didn't talk about "all the Sikhs in delhi". You might've noticed how I started by stating how I was talking about the Lalas in Delhi. In fact, here's the exact words :

Of course, I did take it for granted that you would be old enough to take it for granted that the rickshaw driving Bhatra Sikhs in Delhi could not possibly be mistaken for the softly spoken effeminate lalas.

Better to drive Rickshaw then to clean toilts in west.

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Guest amar_jkp

Whilst I don't wish to cast aspersions on whether or not you are actually amritdhari Mohinder Pal, I do find it strange how any amritdhari can possibly get his religions mixed up and mistake a Sikh Gurdwara for a serene peacefull Christian monastary or Bhuddist temple. Throughout our whole history practically every armed Sikh struggle has been launched from the confines of the Harmindir Sahib complex. The complex itself glories arms and ammunitions and the use of by us Sikhs. So can i take it for granted that you also feel agonised and upset with our 6th patshah Guru Hargobind ji for also making barracks inside the complex and not only training others in arms there but also instructing Sikhs that come there to come armed ?

Fully agree with you. Akal Takht is a place to arm Sikhs and fight for faith . And about Mr Manmohan Sikh he has two daughters. One is married to <banned word filter activated> and another to Hindu.

God save us fron these type of Sikhs. Its very difficult to understand Pujanbi Khatris (Sikh or non Sikhs) specially of Delhi. They want to practice both faiths .

And ask any Non Punjabi Hindu , he always say these khatris say maximum <banned word filter activated> against Sikhs. I dont know much about the Khatris of Punjab but these Hindu Khatris of delhi are anti Sikhs.

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Waheguru Jee Da Khalsa, Waheguru Jee Dee Fateh.

Sorry to say Bhaaji, I am a Jatt from Virk clan.

But I see, Sikhi completely Patit in Jatts. Most (85%) of our Jatt generation is completely Clean Shaven. Out of remaining, 99% are beard trimmers; which we Jatts say is not a problem as long as our turban is 8-9 metres long double turban. Most of my other Jatt friends in University were cigratte/biddi smokers, tobacco chewers, drug abusers. On the other hand, Arora / Khatri Sikhs coming from outside Punjab whom we abuse and become very happy have only preserved the real Sikhi.

I belong to a village in District Patiala, and as soon as I cross Ambala and enter Rajpura, I start seeing my beard trimmed Jatt brothers - my heart boils when I see them in this condition - drinking Biddis with completely shaven BAANA Or paritlally shaven with just a DOT On cheecks (Is this the BAANA OF a Sikh which Guru Gobind Singh Jee created?) We (Jatt Sikhs) have made mockery of the image (BAANA) of the Sikh which Guru Gobind Singh Jee created.

Some of my JATT cousions visited UK, and when some of my GORE friends met them; they raised me a question - They are also Sikhs, but one of them has a trimmed Beard, one is clean shaven; why I keep a Full Beard? What answer should I had given to GORA friends? I was ashamed by GORE friends question.

Sorry to say - Sikhi was created by Khatri clans and only they have preserved it to a large extent. We (Jatts) have made a mockery of it. Just look at our Badal (another Jatt) - he is a puppet of RSS. Badal was the one responsible for 1984 Attack on Amritsar - any doubts - read this - http://sikhvaloursan...e.blogspot.com.

Another famous our own Jatt Sikh K.P.S Gill who was responsible for killing of our brothers only.

It is not like there are not exceptions - Clean shaven/beard trimmers/Traitors will be in other clans as well - but we we (Jatts) seem to have completely betrayed the Khalsa Panth.

To be more honest, I think we the Jatt Sikhs are the most racial people of the whole society. Guru Gobind Singh Jee Made Khalsa from Khande Batte Di Pahul with the message "Manas Di Jaat Sabe eke Pehchanebo", and propagated the message of Khalsa and Sikhi to whole society; but I feel we Jatt Sikhs with our arrogant behaviour have created differences not just between Sikhs and Hindus; but within the Sikh Panth itself.

That's the reason I see so many Gurudwaras in UK - Oldest generation in UK of Sikhs is Jatt Sikhs - they use to control most of the oldest Gurudwaras in UK - We (Jatt Sikhs) did not used to entertain/honour Ramgharia/Arora/Khatri/Afghani Sikhs; and these people had to make their own Gurudwaras. Now we (Jatt Sikhs) cry on SikhChannel over so many Gurudwaras over here - but fail to understand that the problem is created by us only.

Bhul Chuk maaf

Waheguru Jee Da Khalsa, Waheguru Jee Dee Fateh.

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