Gurdwara In Nwfp Pakistan Being Used As A Library

[genie]

Disrespect and insult to Sikhs, imagine a masjid taken over in India and used in this manor would muslims stand for it?

[chatanga]

unfortunately this is not the only gurdawara that happened to go this way. other gurdawaras became schools, mosques, even homes and some just rotted away.

How can we expect to maintain such buildings when there are no Sikhs there?This is the crux of the problem, the Sikhs were forced out in 1947, and really have little chance of maintaining them.

The Sikhs of this particular place, Mansehra, which is north of Rawalpindi, and is in a District called Hazara, in the NWFP, although it is panjabi speaking, were all killed or expelled in the anti-sikh pogrom of December 1946, in which the Muslims fell upon the Sikh minority in Hazara with such force, that within 2 weeks the whole distrist was cleared of Sikhs. Usual pattern was for the men to be killed, and the women and children to be taken.

Because of the success of Muslims, and the non-reprisals from Sikhs, the Muslims buoyed by their success repeated the same events 3 months later in March 1947, in Rawalpindi, in March 1947, in which the whole Sikh population was killed or expelled from Rawalpindi division, which comprised of Rawalpindi, Hazara, Mansehra, Abbotabad and Mingora.

The Sikhs in these places were mainly traders, Aroras and Bhapas, who had little knowledge of fighting and hence being a minority of about 6 % throughout the whole province were an easy target.

The only way to keep the Gurdwaras in a fit state, is to for outside sikhs from uk, usa and canada etc pay the sikh families, living in pakistan to maintain the gurdawaras. This way at least the Sikhs living there could apply for such buildings to be returned to us. It wouldnt be a problem for outside Sikhs, but need to get Sikhs in Pakistan to take initiative.

So sad what has happened to our gurdwaras in Pakistan.

[West London Singh]

Disrespect and insult to Sikhs, imagine a masjid taken over in India and used in this manor would muslims stand for it?

You know, the Jalandhar district of Punjab (where I would imagine most of us here are from) had a distinct muslim majority pre-1947. My village, and all the surrounding villages are full of of what used be mosques. Trust me, I've seen them being used for things a hellva lot worse than something productive like a library. We're not always the victim being hard done by. Sometimes we can be just as wrong.

[genie]

While the generous hearted Sikhs are busy rebuilding and handing back masjids to the small muslim community in Indian Punjab.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100706/FOREIGN/707059834/1002/foreign

The Muslims of Pakistan are either ignorantly or deliberately disrespecting and taking over our places of worship because our people have been demographically cleansed from their homes. The least they can do for that gurdwara is cover their heads and take shoes off while using the premises.

There is a lesson to be learned here and if we dont learn it soon, there will be virtually no Sikhs left in that part of the world. Again can we turn a blind eye to those who want to see Sikhism wiped of this earth? How many sacrifices our people made in the past all for nothing? it is our shame if we cant do something collectively, even small step like creating awareness to the masses will result in some positive outcome surely. Muslims are very quick to highlight the persecution of their folk places like chechnya, kashmir, iraq, afghanistan,etc why are we Sikhs so heartless to not help our own community where ever they maybe.

[chatanga]

You know, the Jalandhar district of Punjab (where I would imagine most of us here are from) had a distinct muslim majority pre-1947.

Jalandhar Division Muslim population pre-partition was 34.53 %. Each of the districts in the Jalandhar Division(Ludhiana,Ferozepor,Jalandhar,Hoshiarpur, and Kangra) had non-muslim majority, which is why it stayed seperate from Pakistan.

[West London Singh]

Jalandhar Division Muslim population pre-partition was 34.53 %. Each of the districts in the Jalandhar Division(Ludhiana,Ferozepor,Jalandhar,Hoshiarpur, and Kangra) had non-muslim majority, which is why it stayed seperate from Pakistan.

Up to 50% Muslim. Which leaves the other 50% to be divided between Hindus, Sikhs and Christians (there were plenty of chure christians in jalandhar jilla pre-1947). You shouldn't even need a calculator to see how numerically strong the muslims were in Jalandhar district, Chatanga. Its not a hard sum to do.

(just as a QI side point : The overwhelming majority of them were re-housed in the Faisalabad (Llyalpur) district of Pakistan where the Jalandhar doaba dialect -that many if not most of us sikhs in the west speak- lives on....but is known in pakistan not as doaba Punjabi but as Faisalabadi Punjabi)

While the generous hearted Sikhs are busy rebuilding and handing back masjids to the small muslim community in Indian Punjab.

http://www.thenation...34/1002/foreign

Pakistan can't give anything back to an invisible community that isn't there, genie. My farm, like all the other farms in Punjab employ many many Biharis. These Biharis are muslims. The muslim population in Punjab is growing. It makes sense to give them back their functioning mosques. But there are many many thousands of abandoned mosques in rural Jalandhar district. The majority of them are either left derelict or being used for purposes that would bring a tear to the eye of any muslim. Like I said....a victim mentality is not good for us Sikhs. Sometimes we can be just as bad and intolerant as those 'others'.

[Jai Tegang!]

Usage of local level, non-historic village mosques/temples/ gurdwaras are understandble when no remaining population of the respective community remains. But what about historic shrines being turned into police stations, schools, homes, as is the case is Pakistan. If you look on the East side, you won't find historic muslim shrines being misused. Not to say that Pakistan has done nothing. Some of the more well known SIkh shrines have been taken care of, but the majority have been taken over. I recall reading a list of about 150 or so historic Sikh shrines in Pakistan, out of which maybe 20-30 were intact and funtioning as Gurdwaras. This does not inculde the thousands of non-historic village gurdwaras.

[Sunderarts]

Gurfateh Ji

It`s really sad when people start stereotyping whole communities.

First of all I would like to emphasise on the fact that a gurdwara is NOT a Building....

But a sanctuary where :

- Guru ji is Parkash

- There is Pangat

- There is Sangat

- And there is a Nishan Sahib

Even all these things need to be held together with humility, compassion and spirituality!

True followers of the Guru “Khalsa”, belongs to no community, or specific land, we belong to Akaal.

We are not here to merely protect Sikhs but “Sarbat dah bhalla”,

Note the Love Muslim Brothers had with the Gurus throughout History

- Bhai Mardana Guru Nanak Dev Ji companion through preaching Sikhism 80 thousand miles radius

- Sai Mian Mir Guru Arjan Dev Crossed Friend and also the individual who was given the honour to lay down foundations of Siri Harmander sahib

- Guni Khan & Nabhi khan, who helped tenth Master escape the clutches of mogul Soldiers in the saka of chamkaur so guru Ji could go on and give strength to the khalsa

There are also many more examples,

God Bless

Sunderarts

[genie]

Up to 50% Muslim. Which leaves the other 50% to be divided between Hindus, Sikhs and Christians (there were plenty of chure christians in jalandhar jilla pre-1947). You shouldn't even need a calculator to see how numerically strong the muslims were in Jalandhar district, Chatanga. Its not a hard sum to do.

(just as a QI side point : The overwhelming majority of them were re-housed in the Faisalabad (Llyalpur) district of Pakistan where the Jalandhar doaba dialect -that many if not most of us sikhs in the west speak- lives on....but is known in pakistan not as doaba Punjabi but as Faisalabadi Punjabi)

Pakistan can't give anything back to an invisible community that isn't there, genie. My farm, like all the other farms in Punjab employ many many Biharis. These Biharis are muslims. The muslim population in Punjab is growing. It makes sense to give them back their functioning mosques. But there are many many thousands of abandoned mosques in rural Jalandhar district. The majority of them are either left derelict or being used for purposes that would bring a tear to the eye of any muslim. Like I said....a victim mentality is not good for us Sikhs. Sometimes we can be just as bad and intolerant as those 'others'.

I'm sure there are masjids that are in a state of disrepair or destroyed since 1947 in Indian punjab but that is not our concern our concern should be consolidating and organising and strengthening the future survival of our religion and community, muslims are 1.5 billion in number and 32 countries they are majority in. We are facing demographic cleasening of our people. And history tells us if we dont secure our places of worship and other interests via political or military pressure then we wont have community no more paving the way for more human rights abuses against us its not victim mentality to create awareness of our places of worship being disrespected or misused. NWFP Pakistan has many tribal Sikhs mainly in peshawar how isnt there a community there for the gurdwara to function?.

When Sikhs ruled that area they ruled with welfare in mind for all in mind, as our scriptures tell us to whereas the islamic ideology only serves to spread islam and welfare for muslims. And we equally should ensure we do not retreat ideologically but stand our ground increase our number and strength. We have weak religious and political leadership with no virtually guidance from the top so we have to become leaders ourselves and ensure Sikhs and their places of worship are treated with respect. We can all draw attention to the sufferings our community in muslim countries face because it helps draw intentional media spotlight which in turn creates political pressure to see the wrongs are put right.

[chatanga]

Up to 50% Muslim. Which leaves the other 50% to be divided between Hindus, Sikhs and Christians (there were plenty of chure christians in jalandhar jilla pre-1947). You shouldn't even need a calculator to see how numerically strong the muslims were in Jalandhar district, Chatanga. Its not a hard sum to do.

what 50% are you bangin on about? I have just given the official population statistics for Jalandhar Division. Hard sums ka bacha! Maybe this is too hard for you. Panjab was divided totally on population figures alone. If Jalandhar or any other district had majority muslim population they would have been awarded to Pakistan. Amritsar was only just saved at 51% non-muslim.

and many christians left for pakistan as well, thinking they would be safer there,than in hindu india.