Grave Concerns For Gravesnd Sangat

[KhiviKaur]

Please don't get so defensive. I was merely trying to establish facts.

Well i guess coming on here and bringing up the Harbhajan mann thing is a bit ridiculous...considering we were all probably about 10 then

Not being defensive, just answering your questions, I guess it is difficult to gauge tone via online messages. T

he point about Mann and indeed the Kabaddi tournaments (associated with alcohol consumption) was brought up to indicate that there needs to be a level of consistency, regardless of time period, some of the people commenting were likely to be in a position to object then as well, just genuinely curious whether similar sentiments were voiced then (the grounds were still owned by the Gurdwara and we had the Khalsa Ave Gurdwara in front of it).

Brian Sangha, the organiser has been in contact with officials and if the venue isn't changed the showing will be cancelled. Well done to those that voiced their concerns to the committee directly. Probably worth attending the next general meeting to hear the direct message of the President....

[Sikhvibes.com]

Name and shame, this needs to be brought up in UK media channels (ie. the sikh channel).

If nothing is done, a protest needs to be arranged to show up on the day of !

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Sikh Channel won't do JACK!!! There's been a clamour for them to highlight the Gray's party hall incident over the last two months, but they might lose money over it so they refuse to publicise it. "Sangat's Channel" is their new motto - whatever!

Hopefully Sikh TV's better on Panthic causes, even if it means upsetting a few people.

Waheguroo

[West London Singh]

Kabbadi is a regular, so is football- any physical activity which encourages fitness and well being is not banned by SGGS...in fact our Guru Sahiban encouraged and started wrestling around their own Gurdwara complex such as Kadoor Sahib in Punjab. However the issue we have is Kabaddi supporters who turn up drunk in the grounds and go through security. This still is a problem, I have seen Kabaddi take place in Gurdwara complex in Canada every week with my own two eyes, but no alcoholics anywhere near to be seen. Something has to learned and adapted.

The 'Canada' situation is very different in that Canada has a very different culture as a nation and different levels of 'freedom' compared with England. In Canada, its even severely against the law for a person to be publicly drinking in a public park...not to mention in the passenger seat of a car....so this contrasts greatly with the culture in England for every Tombir, Dikjit and Harinder to be walking around publicly swigging from a bottle of can. I know in the last couple of years it has also been against certain minor byelaws to drink publicly in England but we all know nobody pays attention to that and it will take another couple of generations before attitudes change in this country.

I guess what I'm saying here is that attitudes, even amomgst Sikhs in Gravesend, will slowly change and we shouldn't be too harsh. My grandad used to tell me how when the Havelock Road, Southall Singh Sabha opened in the early 1960's the langar area used to be where all the Sikhs from Southall and Hounslow would gather after a hard days work and drink beers and home made desi together. They didn't do this out of spight. They did it because for them the Gurdwara was more than a place of worship....it was a place for Sikhs to get together. Slowly but surely they learnt. They learn't how this wasn't acceptable. Gravesend is in a similar situation. Per population it is the most Sikh town in the whole of the UK. As such, attititudes there mirror attitudes in rural Punjab. I've seen with my own eyes how Basakhi and other gurpub days in certain big rural gurdwaras in Punjab....are really just a great big fun fair / mela in the gurdwara complex. People socialising with each other and even buying cannabis pakoras from stalls within the complex....seems to be the order of the day as much as the praying and matha teking.

So...as for the showing of sholay in the gravesend complex....in my heart I know it is wrong and shouldn't be allowed. But, another part of me thinks how christian churches right across this countryt have summer fetes and fairs....where the activities are certainly not what 'jesus' would have envisaged for churches...and certainly don't concentrate the mind of the participant on god. But then again these activities aren't really doing anybody any harm. Nothing truly evil is taking place. What can be the harm in the 'community' coming together. There is an argument that if we want the Gurdwara to remain a central part of the community...a central part of the life of the community, we need to have events such as this. The young one, who wouldn't normally go to the Gurdwara will go. Next time, he'll go for the keep-fit class. Next he'll join the football team. It'll only be a matter of time before he also starts spending time in the darbar hall listening to shabads.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

Name and shame, this needs to be brought up in UK media channels (ie. the sikh channel).

If nothing is done, a protest needs to be arranged to show up on the day of !

Met with Narinderjit Singh yesterday.

He told me that the organisers had been told the film in question could not be shown on the Gurdwara premises.

Probably worth watching what the organisers put out - will they canel all together or find an alternative venue.

[Pyara]

Gravesham Council have taken the event off their website.... and I just spoke to a Gravesend local who confirmed that he spoke directly to the committee yesterday evening who have now cancelled.

http://www.gravesham.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=5751

Perhaps the original poster, Sall, can also confirm this for completion.

[o_singh]

According to comments made on www.panjabradio.co.uk on the 14th july 2010 wednesday on dr gurdeep singh's programme.

Narinderjit singh was supporting the showing of bollywood film SHOLAY 100% and he refused to interven. Even after so much pressure from the sangat, the organisers are still putting pressure to go ahead with the showing. Any one who lives or knows gravesend well, are fully aware that narinderjit singh thandi and the organiser are not separate , but they are all one group.

Met with Narinderjit Singh yesterday.

He told me that the organisers had been told the film in question could not be shown on the Gurdwara premises.

Probably worth watching what the organisers put out - will they canel all together or find an alternative venue.

[KhiviKaur]

According to comments made on www.panjabradio.co.uk on the 14th july 2010 wednesday on dr gurdeep singh's programme.

Narinderjit singh was supporting the showing of bollywood film SHOLAY 100% and he refused to interven. Even after so much pressure from the sangat, the organisers are still putting pressure to go ahead with the showing. Any one who lives or knows gravesend well, are fully aware that narinderjit singh thandi and the organiser are not separate , but they are all one group.

Having spoken to Narinderjit Singh, your comments are incorrect, he made his views known that a religious film should be shown.

Besides no one cares about groups Sewa Singh Lalli (AKJ) or otherwise....youngsters look at this kind of stuff with dispair

This is getting petty and boring now.

Given it is cancelled - Get over it and move on with your life.

[sall]

WJKK WJKF

West London Singh Jeeo , many thanks for pointing out the cultural differences between UK and Canada which obviously are having the correct effect, However I understand where you’re coming from in bringing the community together by having cultural events in a Gurdwara complex, you seem to miss the point that these cultural programmes organised by our elders being exemplars could easily lead and pave the way, for the next upcoming modern Sikh generation for having gigs and Bhangra parties etc. on the same premises. I could well be wrong of course but common sense which is not common practice has to prevail to say the least. Anything is possible in the name of Vasaaki by the bhangra promoting cahoots.

I would love to confirm the event is off and cancelled, however will only do so once I see some kind of resolution for the future.

Secondly there seems to be some bashing going on still with o_singh and khivi kaur- there is no need for it at all, you only have to wait another week or so to find out. Moving on with life is the norm, and easy as life moves you anyway as long as one is living. Not making a protocol or some kind of guidelines for future use of the Gurdwara by AKJ or Feds or Gora or anyone else for that matter is a must and those guidelines must exist for a £15m building. Not having this is a failure by all Sikh groups in Gravesend, leaders or bashers or the quite ones or lame ones like me.

[West London Singh]

Thank you Sall ^, for your message above. Don't get me wrong, I agree wholeheartedly with you re; the situation in Gravesend. However...I am a realist. I can see that we Sikhs have made a rod for our own backs here in the UK. I'm 100% certain that it is under a generation away when we UK Sikhs will be doing what the desperate churches are doing now...i.e desperate fund-raising events in a last ditch desperate attempt to try and tempt a congregation lest the bank re-possess the building or the local authority and utilities start proceedings for non-payment of bills. Fact is, we have double the number of Gurdwaras for what we need. We better get used to things like 'Gravesend'. It's gonna be the norm in years to come. Gurdwaras are gonna have to put on all kinds of 'entertainment' to stop themselves from closing.

I know we Sikhs like to present ourselves as a progressive , educated lot but the truth is we're actually quite short-sighted. I would much rather we UK Sikhs unite today and merge our Gurdwaras.....than see the sad closure of them in years to come. Census figures and historical evidence shows we very much tend to mirror the movements of the Jewish community in the UK. Especially in the sense that our numbers will / are actually decreasing...especially with our movement to new pastures such as America, Canada etc. I've seen derelict old synagogues all over London. There's one here in Hounslow that nobody would even guess was ever a synagogue...but its only when you get closer enough to see the worn hebrew inscriptions on the brick-work that you realise what it once was. We're a community that on the whole gets educated and moves to better areas...but we keep opening our Gurdwaras in the old areas. Thats a recipe for disaster. Not a sign of a forward thinking people. Therefore I see the victory over Gravesend as a hollow victory today. There will be too many 'Gravesends' for us to defeat tomorrow.