Proof/Evidence/Documents For Sikh History

[Hau Apraadhi]

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fatheh!

This muslim guy at my work was talking to me abuot his religion and asking a lot about Sikhi too. But he stumped me on one question. He said that there is documented stuff on the crusades (when the christians attacked the muslims about 1000 years ago), so is there any kind of documented stuff or evidence that all this Sikh History of Shaheedhs (martyrs) did actually happen because of the muslims and hindus? Because he said if someone tells you something, they end up adding fuel to the fire and exaggerate a little, so that then becomes opinionated.

Thanks

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fatheh!

[Bundha]

If you take Banda Singh Bahadurs history then it is well documented by Europeans who were there at the time of his shaheedi and give a vivid account of how every day hundreds of sikhs were marched into the Mughal court and executed and how they took their martydom with great delight. They also give a graphic account of Baba Ji's shaheedi when he was repeatedly tortured and his son killed infront of him.

Jehanghirs memoirs also mention Guru Arjun Dev Ji and how this 'fakir' is getting a grip on the population and needs to be dealt with, either by bringing into islan or

otherwise.

The Jangnama also mentions Ahman Shah Abdali and his encounters with Sikhs, much derogatory remarks are made but still it gives an account of Sikhs living in the saddle, in forests as they were hunted, yet still the managed to attack Abdalis forces on their way back to Afghan.

What has to be remembered is that history is written by those who rule, and for most of their history sikhs have been persecuted and lived a very precarious life so did not have much chance to write accounts.

I would also ask this person how much he can rely on thier historical accounts as muslins will all ways big-up their accounts whether they have been written down or in verbal form.

[Singhstah]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!

Of course there are, just think about it logically, this was only the 1600-1700s. There are the sikh works, such as rattan singh bhangoo's panth parkash, and there are also muslim reports,eg jangnama by quazi noor muhammed http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Jangnama

There is a book called Sicques, Tigers or Thieves by Amandeep Singh Madra and Parmjit Singh, its a fantastic book (although some controversial bits, but history is history) its got an account of everything in it from 1608 to 1809. And the best thing is its all by non-sikhs. so can't even say its exaggerated. You should get hold of that (its on amazon).

[Mehtab Singh]

The funny thing is that many events from Sikh history where Singhs are rightfully described as heroes is written by Muslim historians, and sometimes using hateful words for Sikhs. You should definitely tell that to your friend, but in a friendly way.

[dalsingh101]

Most, if not all of the verifiable early sources are in Farsi (Persian) and are available in a book called 'Sikh history from Persian sources' by Grewal and Habib (I think that is the title). There are other accounts too, but these are not verified and can easily be dismissed by outsiders as unauthentic.

These manuscripts document Banda Singh's battles in detail with people involved in the battles writing accounts. Eye witnesses to his shaheedi in Delhi have also written accounts.

Your friends point about exaggeration in accounts is true of everyone. No accounts really records things without any bias, they all have them to a greater or lesser degree.

[neemaana]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Veer ji please refer to Zaffar Nama (Letter of victory) sentby Guru Gobind Singh Ji to Orangzeb..

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[sikhreality]

Everyone has mentioned non-Sikh sources which is cool if you want that look at the book Sicques, Tigers or Thieves by Amandeep Singh Madra and Parmjit Singh on amazon.

If you want our own sources for history look at Gur Sobha by Kavi Sainapati, Gurbilas Patshahi 10 by Koer Singh, Gurbilas Patshahi 10 Sukha Singh [Patna Sahib], Bansavalinama by Kesar Singh Chibbar, Mehima Prakash, Guru Kian Sakhian by Bhatt Svaroop Singh, all of these are texts written in the 1700s [CE]. If you want texts written in the 1800s [CE] look at Pracheen Panth Prakash by Ratan Singh Bhangu, Gurpratap Suraj Prakash by Mahan-kavi Santhok Singh Ji, Naveen Panth Prakash by Giani Gian Singh, Twarik Guru Khalsa by Giani Gian Singh and probably a lot more which I do not remember from the top of my head.

[kam1825]

Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jis Shaheedi was documented by the Portuguese. Sarmads was documented by the british, the Moghuls documented the 9th Patshah and his Sikhs. Dastiban mentions the Shahidis of the 6th Gurus Sikhs in battle. The Kavis of Guru Gobind Singh Ji documented alot about shahidi (check Darbari Rattan) after that the British and Sikhs documented everything up til the present day

[Singh559]

Can someone help me on this as I don't know the entire story nor do I know how true it is, but here's how it goes:

A Mughal high up officer was sent to spy on a 'suspicious' gathering which we now call Vaisakhi. Everyone, including the spy watched Guru Sahib come out of a tent carrying a kirpan out of it's miyaan. He delivered a very powerful speech to give courage to the people present. Towards the end of the speech he asked for anyone prepared to give their lives to come forward. Slowly one person went and Guru Sahib came out with a blood drenched kirpan and the head of the person who had went inside. At this point many people started to flee afraid and confused, not sure what to think, still four more had come and repeated the process. After the fifth had gone inside, to everyone's astonishment they were all well adorned in saffron and royal blue garments. The Mughan spy wrote in his diary, i have witnessed a miracle and the work of God on earth, this is the last day I shall be a muslim.

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That's roughly how the story went when I was told it, later i think the person said he had taken amrit as well... Does anyone know if there really was such a diary?

[Mehtab Singh]

Can someone help me on this as I don't know the entire story nor do I know how true it is, but here's how it goes:

A Mughal high up officer was sent to spy on a 'suspicious' gathering which we now call Vaisakhi. Everyone, including the spy watched Guru Sahib come out of a tent carrying a kirpan out of it's miyaan. He delivered a very powerful speech to give courage to the people present. Towards the end of the speech he asked for anyone prepared to give their lives to come forward. Slowly one person went and Guru Sahib came out with a blood drenched kirpan and the head of the person who had went inside. At this point many people started to flee afraid and confused, not sure what to think, still four more had come and repeated the process. After the fifth had gone inside, to everyone's astonishment they were all well adorned in saffron and royal blue garments. The Mughan spy wrote in his diary, i have witnessed a miracle and the work of God on earth, this is the last day I shall be a muslim.

-

That's roughly how the story went when I was told it, later i think the person said he had taken amrit as well... Does anyone know if there really was such a diary?

That was Mughal spy Abu Al Turani who became Ajmer Singh.