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Contribution Required For The Huge Sevaa Of Outdoor Screen Project At Sree Darbaar Saaheb

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Very bad idea and if it does goes ahead , give it a few years and the management in darbar sahib will probably start using it to advertise birthdays like all the other Sikh media around the world to raise revenue . Take your project and place it where there is no parchar of gurbani, or maybe the organisers just want there picture in the press.

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I thank the Toronto Sangat for their efforts in this idea. While I think the motives are great, I think some more thoughts and input form the sangat should be there before doing anything. This is not

Firstly, they look terrible. The place has been damaged enough already through shoddy construction work. Secondly, the last thing the committee there needs is funds. The place is rolling in money.

Amritsar is the holiest place on earth, not Times Square or a scientology temple. If we wanted amritsar looking like an apple store thats what it would look like. The focus is on the Guru not bill gat

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SIKH_TORONTO where are you since you have posted for money you have'nt had the courtesy to come back and answer the sangats concerns?

MKHALSAORIGINAL your designs 100% shows that the screens are a Disneyland distraction like being at a football match all we need now is the Indian-Punjab Government to sponsor political banners on it!

I for one am 100% against this idea and oppose it.

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MkhalsaTo, as many members stated including Gurmustak Singh that the intentions of the sewadars of this project are very noble but needs a bit modifications on the location of the screen. It seems that the sewadars did all job done by going to tradeshows, inquiring all about the product and its installations etc. However they missed one big part which is to consult someone who protects fragile historical structures. Kar Sewa Babay in punjab nor SGPC understand the the importance of consulting environmentalist/heritage protectors. BUT organizers are from the west, and we all know the importance of taking advice from experts as mentioned in my earlier replies. If SGPC agreed to put historical gurdwara sahibs under UNESCO then their plan to install huge lcd's anywhere in the complex (outer or inner) would have been thwarted in the very first meeting. Maybe organizer knew that they will get a BIG NO from experts and decided to bypass this important step. Look at the structures in Israel and they are preserved the same way as it was thousands of years ago.. Taj Mahal could have done easily with huge screen installation without any problem in fund raising (they charge 700rs/entry) but they would never do such stuff as they are under UNESCO protection..

Change the location, resize the screen (if needed) and put it up anywhere outside of the complex (manji hall, bagh, rest houses etc...) Also, sttm has many countless errors and not good enough to put it up @ Sri Harmander sahib. If no compromise in locations then consider other options; Hire Sikh youth in punjab, train them to be a good tour guide and put a big stall for visitors to pick a tour guide free of charge. This way it will help unemployed proper singh or singhnia of punjab.

Your project is nice and you don't have to donate $ to any organization but instead carry on such techie related stuff but with respect to architecture structure. Take a look @ Sikh Museum @ sri harmander sahib complex (huge part for visitors) and consider to renovate the whole museum floor to world class level. But again dealing with such stuff, talk/consult with a specialist and then take advice from sangat around the globe BEFORE finalizing the whole project on its own.Organizers need to take step out of their comfort zone.

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Translations and Gurbani media do help people take the first steps in Sikhee like learning Gurbani, improve pronunciation, learning vocabulary. After that stage they become a hindrence.

All the current Gurbani media have tonnes of errors and as for the translations.. Gurbani is a lot deeper than that..

Sri Darbar Sahib isnt a football stadium - this should be referred to those who know about Heritage Conservation as too much damage is being done to our historical sites in india as it is.

as for the SGPC dont even get me started..

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So when I posted on the other thread, I had no idea how big the screen was going to be. I agree this huge screen will be a distraction and as someone else had mentioned, the people that will watch the screen will have their backs to Darbar Sahib. I was expecting much smaller screens to be around the Parikarma. I can't believe SGPC is allowing this!

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So the Toronto folks are adamant about installing these screens.

Benti to Toronto Sikhs - before installing the LED screens, please please please inform the global Sangat, so everyone at least knows about this project.

I found out thanks to SikhSangat - but not everyone (barely anyone) checks out online discussion forums.

And, secondly, obtain approval from the global Sangat (and Guru Ji as someone suggested). Harmandir Sahib belongs to every Sikh (not a few Sikhs who feel that having LED screens that display Gurbani/Kirtan are absolutely necessary and they must be installed no matter what).

If these screens create chaos & divide within the panth (as they are doing online)...what is the point of installing them?

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Guest SarabjeetSingh

Ughhhh ! For God s sake , stop modernising ( read destroying ) the heritage of our Darbar Sahib .

Those screens are gonna be so distracting , plus are we going to listen to bani of the guru or read translations of a mortal ?

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Waheguroo jee ka khalsa waheguroo jee kee fateh!

I know some of the main sevadars on this project and I endorse it 100%. It seems to me that it would be a great boon in educating the masses and teaching them about gurmat and why they are at darbar sahib in the first place. First and foremost it will be good for the local population, secondly for visitors and thirdly for non-"sikhs" who are only there as tourists.

Imagine if it was there during the upcoming Obama visit.

These screens have been in the works for over 2 years. Engineers and designers have worked on the designs, and the SGPC has gone through an approval process. All that remains is the funding to install it. The sevadars have flown all over the place to trade shows and done much research in finding the most effective screens.

These screens are NOT jumbotrons, video screens or ad billboards. At darbar sahib they will ONLY be used to display SikhiToTheMax or equivalent of the shabad currently being sung.

By the logic of some here, perhaps they should remove the loudspeakers as they are a distraction while on the parkarma.. the noise and all...

These sevadars do NOT want to big up there name. They are the same sevadars that have installed STTM screens at every gurudwara in GTA, whether they wanted it or not. This has resulted in massive parchar and benefit for the sangat. The sevadar I spoke to told me how the basic understanding led him into being strong in Sikhi and then wanting to get santhiya etc.

Think about all of the Sikhs who do not know much about Sikhi and how much they will learn from this. Why do we have to attack everything good that others do? While doing nothing good ourselves?

Wow what a response to genuine concerns by people raised on this forum.

In response to the above points,

I would venture that most people do not go to Darbar Sahib to learn about Sikhi (in the way that most of us understand learning as), they go their to EXPERIENCE sikhi. The gurbani, the kirtan, the darshan of maharajh, the seva etc. The learning comes through the experience and participation, not through staring at some gigantic screen.

You say first and foremost that it would benefit the local population. Please could you explain how?! How does installing 4 gigantic screens translating gurbani into english and other 'foreign' languages help the local sangat? The visitors and tourists are the people that these screens are aimed at. Because they have been useful in the west, we assume that they are needed and would be as useful everywhere else. And we all know what assumptions make ...

As one of the other posters said, who cares about Obama?! Do we really think that he cares/would care (even if he was going!). These visits by big names, politicians, actors, etc its all done for publicity and to win favour.

Please could you detail what approval process has the SGPC undertaken? If they actually have then it must have been the first time in at least the last few decades! Unfortunetly, I dont believe that a process was undertaken, more likely that the idea (and the fact that it would be self funded and that apparently all the western sikhs would love the sgpc for doing this) was introduced to one guy who then spoke to another guy, who then signed it off. With the rest of the guys not giving a hoot about what was happening, as long as their positions were safe.

If sevadars have done 2 years of work for this, then well done. Unfortunetly, just becuase we put in effort, doesnt mean that we have to go with it. Sevadars should also have the humility to accept that if sangat is unhappy with the decision, that they shelve the idea of adjust it/discuss other options.

I think the fact that you think the screens would not be used for other purposes shows a level of naievity. For example, at our local gurdwara we use the screens to congratulate people on vaisakhi and have rolling slide shows etc on gurpurbs to educate people. Im pretty sure that the same/similar would happen there, that on vaisakhi, you would have HUGE happy vaisakhi coming out of the screens. And knowing how punjab works, this happy vaisakhi sign would be endorsed by Mr Badal and family with their pictures along the bottom. There is nothing that anyone has that can guarantee that these screens will not be used in other ways.

The loudspeaker example is silly and takes away from the topic at hand.

The fact that you say that these sevadars installed these other screens in places, 'whether they wanted them or not' shows a degree of stubborness. Although the result may have been good, again it doesnt automatically mean that the same is needed at Darbar Sahib!! You say that the screens influenced one person, I would say that they have probably helped a lot of people, BUT I would 100% believe that doing darshan of Sri Harimandir Sahib, sitting on the parkarma, listening, cleaning the batteh, washing the parkarima, just standing there... WITHOUT HAVING TRANSLATIONS will have gotten A LOT more people into Sikhi.

You say that Sikhs will learn from this .. which Sikhs? Are we talking about ourselves again, when we go as visitors for 30 mins, or maybe even stay a few days? Is all this being done for our benefit?!

Also your comment " Why do we have to attack everything good that others do? While doing nothing good ourselves?" is very interesting. To start with, we here are speaking against something which WE view as bad and not good. It is called having a disagreement, and we are having a discussion, which is something the sevadars probably should have had with the wider sangat before doing what the SGPC does all the time, do what it likes, when it likes. Secondly you ASSUME that those who are against this idea, DO NOTHING GOOD THEMSELVES?! Maybe you might want to take a step of that high horse my brother. For all we know the people who are against this do fantastic seva, some gupt, some openly, some may help one or two people, others may help thousands, lets not jump to that tragic conclusion that just because someone is against our fantastic idea, that they must be going agianst 'good' and that they are lazy good for nothings that sit around doing nothing but complaining!!

Your later comments about how the heritage there has already been changed may be correct, but it doesnt mean that we go on loosing more and more. We have to draw a line somewhere. You say that these objections are unfounded, yet there is nothing to support your view that these screens are a good idea. All we have seen is a request for cash! Please can you provide some evidence of appropriate thought processes, analysis, discussion, heritage and conservation considerations, health and safety concerns, project plans, etc etc etc.

Has anyone heard any feedback from the Canadian guys? Are they aware that smaller/more discreet screens are already placed around the parkarima? (according to the report put up by a singh in this thread?)

Ps has anybody ever been using STTM or other versions and ... perhaps you cant find the shabad ... or the programme has frozen ... or an internal bug messes up the font ... or had one of a number of other random problems? Anybody struggled to keep up with kirtanis that use lines from different shabads as parmaan's to the main shabad resulting in finding the new shabad on STTM by the time kirtani has finished and returned to the main shabad ... im trying to imagine the fun this would cause on giant screens around the parkarima. :(

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I agree with you about VIPs.

English has become the defacto second language for everyone on Earth to trade with. It is taught worldwide. The plan is to have 3 languages though.

Regarding your strange view of "history"... The marble on the parkarma is brand new becuase the SGPC wanted to erase all history of the "militants"

The walls of the buildings? NEW. The paint is white wash over actual historical art.

The gold was added against the wishes of the panth.

The Bungas were destroyed and replaced with high walls. Darbar sahib was actually supposed to be open to all.. the 4 doors thing is NEW..

And lastly, history gets made somehow.. in 50 years, these screens will be called historical value to the complex. Its what you make it. I for one am very inspired by this.

You cannot be serious! Do you realise you sound insane?!!!

Screens adding historical value LOL, and you just added reasons they shouldn't be installed. Nothing as major as this should happen without the backing of the panth, knowing all of the things not approved by the panth you seem willing to add another thing to the list.

You really have a nerve coming on here backing a project you know the majority of the panth will oppose, your feeble attempts at backing this completely outrageous project will not stand against the panth.

You obviously do not believe in democracy or true worship, if you did you would not want to ruin the sacredness and peace of the holiest place on earth and that makes two of you, Indira Gandhi and yourself.

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Has anybody been in touch with the 3 Sikh channels? especially Sikh channel maybe they could have a debate about it to highlight to the general sangat what a disgusting proposal this is.

The Akal Takhat needs to be informed of the disapproval of the sangat worldwide. We need to mobilise and do is fast before this insane project gets off the ground.

We need to make our voice heard. :o

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Puting aside the fact that this is a ridiculous idea, who are this organisation - Gursewa Charitable Society?

Are people based in the Greater Toronto area familiar with its work?

The addresses given are residential properties. Could it just be a scam??

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