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Were Guru Nanak Dev Ji God Himself ?


Guest SarabjeetSingh
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You yourself agree that GurBani is Nirankaar (God).

Yes and Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is also Nirankar. Gurbani says it.

Guru Nanak Sahib was a medium to utter Gurbani - they weren't God themselves.

What do you have to call Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj, just a medium and was not Sri Waheguru ji? The shabad you presented and your understanding has been questioned by me. I was expecting you to tell me how you feel about that.

I feel something is not correct in those translations - since the very mool mantar you quote states Ajooni.

Let's discuss what Ajooni means here. I would like to hear your point here.

And the same Guru Arjan Sahib says So Mukh Jalo Jith Kahe Thakur Joni.

Can you present on what ang the above Bani is on?

Then Gurbani from SGGS (which you say is Nirankaar) also says Satgur Mera Sada Sada, Na Avey, Na Jaaey.

Again please present the ang of the above Bani

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No, Guru Nanak Sahib were not Parmatma (God) but one with God. There is a difference between that.

Guru Sahib howhever knew The Truth since their birth. They uttered Bani since the age of 5. Whereas others such as Bhagat Ravidas, Bhagat Naamdev, Bhagat Jaidev, Bhagat Kabir, etc had to do Khoj to find Waheguru (God). This shows Guru Nanak Sahib were specially sent by God.

Some Tuks from Bani to back up the above:

Hao Dhadhi Bekaar Karai Laiyaa

Raat Dihai Kai Vaar Darahu Furmaiyaa

Dhadhi Sachai Mehal Khasam Bulaia

Sachi Sifat Salaah Kapra Paiyaa

Sacha Amrit Naam Bhojan Aiyaa

Gurmati Khadha Raaj Tin Sukh Paiyaa

Dhadhi Kare Pasao Sabad Vajaiyaa

Nanak Sach Salahi Puraa Paiyaa

I was a minstrel, out of work, when the Lord took me into His service. To sing His Praises day and night, He gave me His Order, right from the start. My Lord and Master has summoned me, His minstrel, to the True Mansion of His Presence. He has dressed me in the robes of His True Praise and Glory. The Ambrosial Nectar of the True Name has become my food. Those who follow the Guru's Teachings, who eat this food and are satisfied, find peace. His minstrel spreads His Glory, singing and vibrating the Word of His Shabad. O Nanak, praising the True Lord, I have obtained His Perfection.

(M:1, 150, GGS)

Besides Guru Sahib were in direct contact with God - JAISI MEH AVI KHASAM KI BANI, TAISRA KARE GYAN VE LALO. (O Lalo, I narrate to you Bani the way it comes to me from God)

WJKK WJKF

ok then, if i were to formulate this moorakhs argument about our guru arjun dev sahib ji maharaj..

in bhatta de savayyae, the line comes >naanak angad amar laag, utam pad paayo. gur arjun ghar gur raamdaas anbhau thaharaayo<.

im not gona translate this line. but this this line clearly states that guru is gur arjun.

guru arjun dev sahib ji ,compiled the SGGS.

inadvertntly, one can say guru arjun dev ji was calling themself guru.

however, specifically and blatently, guru arjun dev ji also says, ham santan ki ren piyaare. meaning that they are the dust from those beloved sikhs.

guru arjun also says >kahu naanak hum loon <banned word filter activated><

if one does not understand these kind of gurbani tuks, one can make some of the utmost moorakh-est comments that one can make..

these commments are NOT IN SIKHI AND GURMUT but some ppl can say mis led comments FOR EXAMPLE, 1 place, guru arjun dev ji says they are the servent of god (har jun).

on the other hand, they also acknolege inadvertently, that they are guru.. another place, guru ji says that they are the dust off the feet from those beloved sikhs.

ppl may conclude from this that guru arjun dev ji doesnt even know hu they are. such a moorakh comment such as this, some ppl make.

this is out of not understanding what GURU is.

to understand what guru is is no easy task. iv posted in this thred exactly about this explaining how it is dificult to understand guru. id advise for u to read them..

in the samy way that some people get misled into translations and other tuks about what guru ji is saying, this is how you are getting misled.

guru ji says, gur parameswar eko jaan..

guru also says, gur PARSADI eko jaan.

u say that guruji was the vessel for god.. does that not make guru ji a 'parsadi' in one sense? i hope you see this that there is no difference between guru and god, and also the one that takes 'parsaad' from god.

to truly take prasaad from god, is an amazing feat in and of itself.

to further understand akaal purakh roop, and the true nature of guru, and how GURU becomes PARGAT into his creation, is even more dificult. but its easy at the same time.

to catagorise such things as you have, there is nothing wrong in this. but it puts a limit into the validity of your claims and conclusions.

you are correct, but only to an extent..

i can confidently say, that all who want to understand sikhi, have been in your position i.e. to try and understand sikhi through fixt catagoric models etc..

but as we all no, there exists dynamicity in every model. the entire word is dynamic.

so is sikhi. the law of love. i take it u no the age one things of 'how does one qualtify love' so im not gona go into this..

so if your guru, my guru, OUR guru, says hum loon <banned word filter activated> etc, keeri etc, then this fits no where into your argument, into your 'model' as such.

you may say, but no this is guru jiz humility, to which ill say, yes!!! it is!!!!

thus! in this same way that guruji does not say outright that they are god, is also in this same huminity. its like, if i say im god, how will u tell the difference ....etc....

to understand what guru is, is long and dificult. you will have to do a lot of veechaar...

not read masses or lines, but take 1 concept, such as gur parmeswar eko jaan and gur parsadi eko jaan, then try to think this through its levels of meaning.. keep going til u get tired :) gurbani is beant.. look deeper than the a`char on the ang jio.

gurfateh

O! AND ANOTHER!!! gurparsadi har ras dhraapai

:)

fateh

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WJKK WJKF

only five, I haven't said anywhere that Guru is not Waheguru, just presented

it differently apologies for confusion. I'm fully aware of what you say about Guru Gobind Singh Ji and

infact I beleive there was NO tent either, since when and where else has

Guru Sahiban ever did anything in hiding?? However that is another discussion

point.

Your points are vaild.

right on jeeo dude :cool:

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  • 3 years later...

gurfateh..

once one immerses into the ek jot then that jot, and the jot of god is seen as 1. thus ppl say that god is on earth. which is true. but not in the full sense of this statment.

and!!!!!!!!!!!

where it sez jo HUM ko parmeswar ucharhe...

this does NOT mean that guru gobind singh ji is saying whoever calls ME god, guru ji is saying whoever calls themselves god. THEY will fall into hell. HUM IS BAHU BACHAN. i.e.plural ?tense?.. http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/smile.gif

this is also true because ~3-4 pauria before guru ji talks about the moorakhs doing saying that they are god and making ppl bow down to them and 2-3 pauria after guruji talks about these moorakhs as well.. guruji also says >mahapurakh kaahu na pachaana< about these ppl. meaning that these ppl dont understand anything about God..

>>hak hak andesh<< and >>jin jaata so tis hi jeha<<

if bhai nand laal says guru gobind singh ji has the understanding of god, then guru maharaaj says whoever understands god, is exactly like him, then why do we still say that guru gobind singh ji is not god himself??

they are. (as far as this definition goes)

but then!!

guru maharaj also tells us that whoever understands god, I.E. A BRAHAM GIANI, >>bhrahamgyani aap nirankaar<<

all this is stated yey we stillsay that line about guru gobind sing is called guru, then we go to hell... this is not the case.

our sikhi is beautiful. our masters of our religion, our gurus are our base, and naam is the vibration we hop onto, to get to the undying light lord akaal.

soz if i was a bit over bearing...

gurfateh.

hum rulte firte

http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/wacko.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/sleep.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/wacko.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/sleep.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/ph34r.gifhttp://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/sad.gifhttp://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/mellow.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/huh.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/ph34r.gif http://www.sikhsangat.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/happy.gif

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ਅਗਲੀ ਪੰਕਤੀ ਪੜ ਲਵੋ , ਓਸੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ , ਜਵਾਬ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ

ਮੈ ਹੋ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੋ ਦਾਸਾ ॥ ਦੇਖਨਿ ਆਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥

ਇਹ ਸਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਆਤਮ ਕਥਾ ਦਾ ਚਲ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਆਪਣੀ ਗੱਲ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ।

ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾ ਸੋ ਕਹਿ ਹੋਂ ॥ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਤੇ ਮੋਨਿ ਨ ਰਹਿਹੋਂ ॥੩੩॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਕੇ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੈ , ਓਹੀ ਲਿਖ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ

ਕਹਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸੁ ਭਾਖਿ ਹੋਂ ॥ ਕਿਸੂ ਨ ਕਾਨ ਰਾਖਿ ਹੋਂ ॥

ਨ ਕਾਨਿ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਧਰੋਂ ॥ ਕਹਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸੁ ਮੈ ਕਰੋਂ ॥੩੬॥

ਭਾਵ ਮੈਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਆਨ ਮਤੀ ਦੀ ਸੁਣਦਾ , ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ , ਮੈਂ ਓਹੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾ।

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ਅਗਲੀ ਪੰਕਤੀ ਪੜ ਲਵੋ , ਓਸੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ , ਜਵਾਬ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ

ਮੈ ਹੋ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੋ ਦਾਸਾ ॥ ਦੇਖਨਿ ਆਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥

ਇਹ ਸਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਆਤਮ ਕਥਾ ਦਾ ਚਲ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ - u dont flipin sayy!, ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਆਪਣੀ ਗੱਲ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ। - captain flipin obvious

ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾ ਸੋ ਕਹਿ ਹੋਂ ॥ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਤੇ ਮੋਨਿ ਨ ਰਹਿਹੋਂ ॥੩੩॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਕੇ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੈ , ਓਹੀ ਲਿਖ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ

ਕਹਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸੁ ਭਾਖਿ ਹੋਂ ॥ ਕਿਸੂ ਨ ਕਾਨ ਰਾਖਿ ਹੋਂ ॥

ਨ ਕਾਨਿ ਕਾਹੂ ਕੀ ਧਰੋਂ ॥ ਕਹਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸੁ ਮੈ ਕਰੋਂ ॥੩੬॥

ਭਾਵ ਮੈਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਆਨ ਮਤੀ ਦੀ ਸੁਣਦਾ , ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ , ਮੈਂ ਓਹੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾ।

you may as well say, that the pangti "dekhan ayo jagat tamasa" means "ive only come to see the crap in the world (and not change it)". take this outta context too bro.

LearN that our guru nanak paatshah said "hau gur poochau" by your logic, you will say on this pankti, "guru nanak dev ji cant be guru because they asked guru" - again, outta context viewpoint.

and our panjme paatsha said !nirgun neech anaath apradhi..." by your logic you will take this out of context too.

your answer is not the same as gurus answer. so i dont know what answer you mean to say we get in the "next line".

"dhur ki bani aaee" and "ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾ ਸੋ ਕਹਿ ਹੋਂ " is this same thing!!!!!!

u saying "ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਕੇ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੈ , ਓਹੀ ਲਿਖ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ" doesn't add any value to what you say and doesn't statement any more true!!!! if you read it properly and not take it outta context, guru g is saying "do not bow to me like these <pandits etc> that call themselves god. !!"""" guru G urges us to understand God to be God. BUT!!!! "JIN JAATA SO TIS HI JEHA"..

u cant say guru gobind singh ji, the one who braught the punj piyaare back to life after beheadding them, didnt understand God.!!!

if u cant understand this, y do you post what other people have researched? y not do your own research jio.. just read bani and u will understand it!. then do santhia and then make up your own mind.. ill show you so many places that are taken out of context. this is just one about the well known like "jo hum ko"

it serves better to learn and reflect. we are not here to so called 'spread the word' thats guru Gs job! if the person doesn't want to understand then

Apologies if i come across too stern but u cant just regurgitate what others have said,!

Fateh

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I dont know whether this is the right topic where I should post my question, but I will go ahead and post , because it reamains unanswered in a new post.

Talking about God and His Form, it is well understood that Gurbani says that God is Formless/Nirankar.
It also says that the Guru and the God are one.

But, I am confused that who is Guru Ji referring to in the following lines :

बागे कापड़ बोलै बैण ॥
Bāge kāpaṛ bolai baiṇ.
You wear white clothes, and speak sweet words.
लमा नकु काले तेरे नैण ॥
Lammā nak kāle ṯere naiṇ.
Your nose is sharp, and your eyes are black.
कबहूं साहिबु देखिआ भैण ॥१॥
Kabahūʼn sāhib ḏekẖi▫ā bẖaiṇ. ||1||
Have you ever seen your Lord and Master, O sister? ||1||

Is Guru Jee describing God Himself??? (white clothes lone nose etc )

I have seen some stupid people saying that he is referring to Kabir Jee (cannot be True).
Please clear this if someone can.

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