Sikh Channel Spreading Caste System

[JasSinghKhalsa]

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Khalse Jee, I don't know what to say, but time and again, it is becoming very common that Sikh Channel (840) is spreading the caste system and is probably a specific sect controlled channel. There are numerous programmes in which this has been seen -

Rana Jee saying 20 times on the program of Bhagat Singh Shaheedi - Bhagat Singh was a Sandhu - He was a Jatt. Infact even one caller pointed Mr. Rana Jee to stop all this non-sense and don't spread caste system.

Probably I have a differing view, I don't even consider Bhagat Singh as a Sikhi Role Model (although he was a great warrior, a great philosopher, a great freedom fighter) and can't present him as a Sikhi Role Model to my children, what inspiration will I give to my children? Cut your Kesh like Bhagat Singh did? unlike Baba Fateh Singh and Baba Zorawar Singh who gave lifes but not Sikhi.

One more Singh probably from some charity again mentioning - Jatt Sikhs are the only real Sikhs - giving 99% of Kurbanis?

I don't know what to say - but I don't see any Jatt Sikhs in any Sikhi Swaroop today. I am too a Jatt Sikh and all my relatives have become clean shaven Or cut their beards like anything. All I have seen what my relatives Jatt's Kurbani's as first Kesh Di Kurbani, then Sikhi Swaroop di Kurbaani, then drink alcohol and Sikhi Maryada Di kurbaani, then tear head of another warring Jatt faction group members - which leads to Kurbaani of another Jatt.

The programme on Sunday - 31/10/2010 - One Singh on the call in the LIVE program clearly pin-pointed one member of the panel involved in spreading caste system in Southall Gurudwara and that caller was very correct. The person who was pin-pointed started creating some unusual hand and face expressions and his face went completely pale. Unfortunately, Sikh Channel is collecting all such people who spread caste system in Sikhi bringing them on a common media platform.

WJKK WJKF.

[dalsingh101]

Has anyone tried politely speaking to the owners of the channel?

[Malwai]

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I don't see the problem with mentioning the FACT that Bhagat Singh was a Sandhu, I really don't understand where caste comes into the equation. Jatts are not a caste but a ethnic tribal group, divided into clans, much like the Pashtuns. I don't see the problem with mentioning someone's ethnic/clan origin?

Look whether you like it or not, Jatts have distinct social, cultural and ethnic traits, even the Gurus maintained their Khatri marriage customs/traditions. Cultural heritages can be maintained without discriminating against others, things like separate gurdwaras in villages based on caste/ethnic/social lines is very wrong, and any other such practices that Guru Ji was against.

As for Jatt Sikhs making most of the Kurbani, well if I'm being honest, it's partially true. Speaking from first hand experience of Khalistani Sikhs in Punjab during the 80's, the movement was Jatt Sikh led and predominantly Jatt Sikh in support and numbers, this is not to discredit or lessen the contribution of other great Sikh Shaheeds were not from a Jatt background, I want to make this point very clear.

But I take the point, if it was repeated unnecessarily, then I find that rather pointless and annoying.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

But I take the point, if it was repeated unnecessarily, then I find that rather pointless and annoying.

Malwai jee, this is the real concern. This is done time and again and also repeated multiple times even in a single program and now even callers on LIVE programs have started pointing them not to do this.

[dalsingh101]

There is the point about banging on about one's caste which is just really a manifestation of ego (from my experience that's what it turns into whenever it gets started). Plus it is pretty divisive in terms of panthic cohesion and let's be frank, it is something that negatively influences many things in the panth - from politics and Gurdwara committee stuff.

Look whether you like it or not, Jatts have distinct social, cultural and ethnic traits, even the Gurus maintained their Khatri marriage customs/traditions. Cultural heritages can be maintained without discriminating against others, things like separate gurdwaras in villages based on caste/ethnic/social lines is very wrong, and any other such practices that Guru Ji was against.

If we accept that then where do we draw the line? Can not Sikhs from Bhatra backgrounds say we have our own unique culture/traits we want to preserve, the Tarkhans too etc etc. Then you will get the argument that one caste is trying to unfairly change other smaller one's 'culture/traits' etc. whilst keeping their own.

Even if we were to accept the ethnic group argument (which I don't and think is full of more holes than Swiss cheese, as well as very likely instigated by the British for colonial purposes). Everyone can start to play that game.

I guess it points down to whether we want to highlight differences between us or our commonality. But if Jatts are really adamant about pushing for their own distinctive identity in Sikhi, they shouldn't complain when others do the same. Seriously, I don't know how much of this 'I want to keep my culture' argument really just hides a more supremacist agenda sometimes? Most people I have met like that in the UK are usually not very nice people and quite hate filled underneath the surface.

It is sad that a so-called 'Sikh' Channel itself can't get over this jaat paat stuff. But I know it will get less and less important between Sikhs in the west over the next few generations. Of that much I am sure.

[Malwai]

There is the point about banging on about one's caste which is just really a manifestation of ego (from my experience that's what it turns into whenever it gets started). Plus it is pretty divisive in terms of panthic cohesion and let's be frank, it is something that negatively influences many things in the panth - from politics and Gurdwara committee stuff.

If we accept that then where do we draw the line? Can not Sikhs from Bhatra backgrounds say we have our own unique culture/traits we want to preserve, the Tarkhans too etc etc. Then you will get the argument that one caste is trying to unfairly change other smaller one's 'culture/traits' etc. whilst keeping their own.

Even if we were to accept the ethnic group argument (which I don't and think is full of more holes than Swiss cheese, as well as very likely instigated by the British for colonial purposes). Everyone can start to play that game.

I guess it points down to whether we want to highlight differences between us or our commonality. But if Jatts are really adamant about pushing for their own distinctive identity in Sikhi, they shouldn't complain when others do the same. Seriously, I don't know how much of this 'I want to keep my culture' argument really just hides a more supremacist agenda sometimes? Most people I have met like that in the UK are usually not very nice people and quite hate filled underneath the surface.

It is sad that a so-called 'Sikh' Channel itself can't get over this jaat paat stuff. But I know it will get less and less important between Sikhs in the west over the next few generations. Of that much I am sure.

Dal Singh Veer Ji,

First of all I've yet to meet a Jatt that has a problem with other Sikhs asserting any cultural or ethnic identity, it's always the other way round, and so your point is completely invalid. Tharkhans or Bhatras are more than welcome to have their own identity and welcome to express it so long as it doesn't violate the fundamental rights of other Sikhs as per the SGGS, this applies to Jatts too I might add.

What's there to accept about the ethnic group statement, it's a FACT, nothing to do with the British, yes they exploited caste/ethnic/social divisions on the sub-continent, but the FACT still stands that Jatts are not a caste, I challenge you to disprove me otherwise. My field of expertise is Anthropology, and in my time I have studied the composition of the Indian sub-continent, so please can you let me know what these "holes" are so that I can enlighten you.

Jatts have never complained about anybody else expressing their identity, it's laughable to even suggest this! It's always the other way around, with peoples own inferiority complex.

Please don't take any offence to my post, I don't have any hatred or supremacist agenda, I'm just interested in the facts and the truth. I openly admit there are Jatts who view themselves to be of a higher disposition in comparison with others because of their superior economic standing in society, but this is not limited to other non-Jatts, this attitude also extends to poor Jatts too, I have seen this myself many times.

I don't think the actions of one or two speakers on Sikh Channel should discredit the channel, they have done a great service, they openly discuss controversial Panthic issues, and might I add I have seen adverts for Ravidassia functions/programs, so I think this is being blown out of proportion perhaps?

[Delpiero]

This Jatt being an ethnicity is all fine and dandy but majority of jatts ive come across see it as a caste, oh and they also think jatts are better than everyone else.

Maybe this is what jattism is all about

JATT 4 LYF BRAPP BRAPPP

[dalsingh101]

I just think this 'ethnicity argument' is playing around with semantics myself. It doesn't matter if this is true even, because how it commonly translates at ground level is plain hatred and supremacist thinking as well as a sort of 'partisan politics' within Sikhi.

When you put all red herring arguments aside it really boils down to whether we we think it is okay to accept this kind of stuff amongst us as Sikhs. I couldn't care a toss about who said what about Scythians, Aryans, or flannah and timka. There is still the dream of a united, egalitarian panth that survives and transcends all such thinking, despite a lot of corruption being abound. Anyone playing down how caste puts SERIOUS fissures in an already small community and is the root cause of much animosity and hatred in the panth is either lying or deluding themselves in my opinion. Go back home and see for yourself. Some talk about other people's inferiority complex but the opposite also exists with unwarranted supremacist complexes by many whom, if we got to know them, most of us would probably agree were intellectually challenged and cowardly. I met a lot of young men (and some females) like this when I was a teacher. Kids who were frequently bullied by nonSikhs and absolutely atrocious at any educational activities but still brainwashed into thinking they were some sort of higher beings.

Anyway, we'll all see how things pan out. Given the fact we are murdering unborn girls by the thousands, pretty soon a lot of the notions of racial purity pursued by some misled members of the panth are likely to start unraveling as people will be compelled to marry outside of caste and even faith.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

Delpiero Jee, This video is relly an eye opener.

Let's see the analogy to 7-8 Gurudwaras in Southall. I did a bit of research there and people told me Afghanis built their own Gurudwara because main Singh Sabha Gurudwara didn't used to allow Afghani Sikhs to do Sukhmani Sahib Path Ashtpadi as the main lead as they used to say "Your prounciation is not good". Same issue on other sort of SEWA.

Same comments I heard from Ramghariya's and Ravidassiyas who made their own Gurudwaras.

Now - the same thing started on Channels. Sikh Channel being controlled by Jatt community probably had a plan to control all UK and Europe Gurudwaras by setting up a National Sikh Council but I think that plan didn't succed as other Gurudwaras set up by other communities didn't accepted their supermacy, egoistic, arrogant approach and hence another 2 Media channels on SKY.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

WJKK WJKF.

[West London Singh]

You ^ have to do some 'research' about Southall....I live in Southall. Let me tell you something about these Afghani Sikhs. *ADMIN EDITED*

Anyway....Great Fire of London ?....It was probably a Jatt that started that.

Our failure at the World Cup ?.....It was the jatts fault.

I think it's time to stop blaiming the jatts for everything and anything. Other groups do wrong and then play the jatt card to justify their actions. Rather than blaming the jatts for everything do you not think there might be some sort of inferiority complex issues with the other communities ?