Beadbi At Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham

[JarnailS]

Mr Jarnail Singh Khalsa, you seem to be part of the gurdwara committee or are in someway closely linked to the management committe. You should be using your influence to stop meat and sharab being consumed on the gurdwara's property. If there are a number of uses for the hall then there is no need for the parties etc to take place there, even if the gurdwara has to pay extra to cover the costs its worth it.

Primary aim for gurdwara is not to make money, breaking even is fine, making some savings is better but gurdwaras profits/rewards are based on how many people it has helped to make amritari, changed people lives for the better and education rather than whats in the bank.

This is not rocket science, such a simple step to make.

Veer ji, neither I am a committee member nor I am closely linked to the magagement committee... I just go to gurughar to have darshan of guru ji (just like you). It was just a polite request to all to use the website as a positive tool rather than dissing it. Any other issue, please raise it to the suitable person at gurdwara sahib as well as discussing here. Do ardaas, guru ji will help!!!

wjkk wjkf

[MentalSingh]

Don't think anyone is dissing the website but are stating the hypocrisy it shows on the committees behalf. It is sending a mixed message to the sangat and portrays a rosey picture while underneath there are many acts of beadbi taking place.

[Into the Light]

Jarnail Singh Khalsa Jeeo, a right in no way makes a wrong, right. The committee are allowing beadbee to happen on Gurdwara property and this is unacceptable!

[sikhpaji]

Don't think anyone is dissing the website but are stating the hypocrisy it shows on the committees behalf. It is sending a mixed message to the sangat and portrays a rosey picture while underneath there are many acts of beadbi taking place.

I really think that Mental Singh is bitter and from an opposition party at the gurdwara the way he is speaking. So sad talking about beadbi when £88k of the sangats money is missing from the car park income, and the people who became directors, Tarsem Singh Ajimal (bound over by the police for smashing windows and a suspect for the brutal attack on another sikh leader), Ajit Singh Ubhi (who does nothing bur swear and his son's Boota a dentist and Muktiar a solicitor were cautioned for threatening the guy who had his leg broken by the opposition party for speaking the truth about missing money and the Gurmuck Chana who was treasurer and company secretary and will not give the accounts to the gurdwara)., Even sadder is that Trustees such as Pyara Singh Chagger and sons and Mohinder Sinkgh Manku who were property trustees said they gave no authority for the above to take the lease for the car park out from the Girdwara and become directors.

If anyone is diverting attention from the real issue's affecting Sikhism it is you Mental Singh, come forward with your real name if you are a Guru Ji Ka Sikh. If you do not have the guts then delete your profile from this forum. Sikhs do not need stirrers in thier community.

WJKK WJKF

[malkeet]

I really think that Mental Singh is bitter and from an opposition party at the gurdwara the way he is speaking. So sad talking about beadbi when £88k of the sangats money is missing from the car park income, and the people who became directors, Tarsem Singh Ajimal (bound over by the police for smashing windows and a suspect for the brutal attack on another sikh leader), Ajit Singh Ubhi (who does nothing bur swear and his son's Boota a dentist and Muktiar a solicitor were cautioned for threatening the guy who had his leg broken by the opposition party for speaking the truth about missing money and the Gurmuck Chana who was treasurer and company secretary and will not give the accounts to the gurdwara)., Even sadder is that Trustees such as Pyara Singh Chagger and sons and Mohinder Sinkgh Manku who were property trustees said they gave no authority for the above to take the lease for the car park out from the Girdwara and become directors.

If anyone is diverting attention from the real issue's affecting Sikhism it is you Mental Singh, come forward with your real name if you are a Guru Ji Ka Sikh. If you do not have the guts then delete your profile from this forum. Sikhs do not need stirrers in thier community.

WJKK WJKF

ive not read the past few pages, however after reading your post i feel compelled to reply. Firstly, paaji, please dont do personal attacks on any forum member on here, if you wish to discuss the beadbi issue with regards to party halls attached to gurdvaras then please post your opinions in a nice well mannered way. that way people will respect anything you have to say. From my understanding, it is sangat from across the uk whom have formed Satkaar, please remember this.

Gurdvara corruption is a huge problem in the uk (and world) unfortunately the huge revenue made by gurdvaras is attracting the wrong kinds of people to run them. It is impossible to tackle every issue at the same time. Instead we should tackle them one by one. Once the 15 gurdvaras which are OPENLY opposing the akal takhts hukamnama and sandesh have "fallen into line" then sangat can address the other issues which are not so open, but equally important.

forgive me for anything wrong i have said. good luck satkaar, i truly respect and support what you are doing.

[MentalSingh]

Sikhpaji you seem to have a wild imagination. Not sure how you worked out I am part of the opposition party at the Gurdwara from my previous update but you seem to have an in-depth understanding of what's happening there. Before making such statements and naming people in public forums you should get proof. If someone has taken that much money let the polie to their investigations and get to the truth. If they do not charge anyone you should be careful what you say.

Your update only highlights the major problems that are occurring at this Gurdwara. Don't take this away from the beadbi that is taking place at the gurwara. If you are in charge now then you re responsible so deal with it instead

Of making excuses.

Don't try and big yourself up on a public forum and talk the talk. If you can't be an adult then go and join another forum.

[sikhpaji]

Sikhpaji you seem to have a wild imagination. Not sure how you worked out I am part of the opposition party at the Gurdwara from my previous update but you seem to have an in-depth understanding of what's happening there. Before making such statements and naming people in public forums you should get proof. If someone has taken that much money let the polie to their investigations and get to the truth. If they do not charge anyone you should be careful what you say.

Your update only highlights the major problems that are occurring at this Gurdwara. Don't take this away from the beadbi that is taking place at the gurwara. If you are in charge now then you re responsible so deal with it instead

Of making excuses.

Don't try and big yourself up on a public forum and talk the talk. If you can't be an adult then go and join another forum.

Mental Singh Ji, glad i struck a nerve like you did with Pyara Singh Bhogal and you were proud of it, Satkaar Sewadaars do not havce a fixed address or telephone number so why are they representing the UK Sangat, how many members are there of the UK Sangat that they represent ? There are over 4000 members at the gurdwara in Birmingham alone, so if all the 15 instituions get together there will be approx 20000 members how many of these are represented against Satkaar Sewadars. We need to talk to recognised bodies nbot an email address and a mobile phone number.

[malkeet]

Mental Singh Ji, glad i struck a nerve like you did with Pyara Singh Bhogal and you were proud of it, Satkaar Sewadaars do not havce a fixed address or telephone number so why are they representing the UK Sangat, how many members are there of the UK Sangat that they represent ? There are over 4000 members at the gurdwara in Birmingham alone, so if all the 15 instituions get together there will be approx 20000 members how many of these are represented against Satkaar Sewadars. We need to talk to recognised bodies nbot an email address and a mobile phone number.

im sure the akaal takht, which has 25million sikh members worldwide will be happy to answer any enquiries that you have with regards to their hukamnama and sandesh. :waheguru:

[MentalSingh]

The akaal takht are the ones who have banned meat an sharab at any gurdwara owned properties. So you are saying that the Akal takht is not a recognised body and you will not follow the sandesh that they took out banning meat and sharab on Gurdwara property. If you don't listen to the supreme body of the Sikhs who else are you going to listen to. The satkaar group are just relaying the message of the Akal takht.

Your knowledge and understanding of sikhi is scary. If the Gurdwara has a library I suggest you spend more time reading books and building up your knowledge or sit in the darbaar and listen to gurbani

Sikhpaji your lack of understanding of sikhi is scary. Ian amazed that you need to speak to a more recognised body than the Akal takht.

[sikhpaji]

The akaal takht are the ones who have banned meat an sharab at any gurdwara owned properties. So you are saying that the Akal takht is not a recognised body and you will not follow the sandesh that they took out banning meat and sharab on Gurdwara property. If you don't listen to the supreme body of the Sikhs who else are you going to listen to. The satkaar group are just relaying the message of the Akal takht.

Your knowledge and understanding of sikhi is scary. If the Gurdwara has a library I suggest you spend more time reading books and building up your knowledge or sit in the darbaar and listen to gurbani

Sikhpaji your lack of understanding of sikhi is scary. Ian amazed that you need to speak to a more recognised body than the Akal takht.

Malkeet Singh Ji, apparently the Akal Takht had a meeting which lasted three days to clarify eating meat amongst sikhs where all the senior scholars were asked to give a verdict, after the three days they could not decide whether meat is prohibited in sikhism or not. Inderjit Singh Khalsa, Hazoori Ragi Jatha were part of the meeting and advised of this and we have written to the Akal Takht asking them for clarification and till today there has been no response.

Secondly you mention 25 million members, its ashame that the majority of them even some of those who are Amrit Dhari get thier children married in front of the Gurur Granth Sahib and tell the Gurdwara not to do speeches as they have paid £50000 for a lunch venue where there is meat, drinking and dancing and thier son's take thier pagh off, have a shave, drink and eat meat.

Are these the 25 millions you are talking about ? Education for this must start at home. Don't blame the gurdwara instituions where a lot of people do give thier time and effort. I have heard people complain that the Gurdwara Sahib charge £250.00 for conducting the complete wedding ceremony inlcuding hire for tea an milni's whereas these same Amrit Dhari's have no issue to fulfill thier childrens pleasure and spend thousands on meat and drinks outrside.

The Gurdwara as I have heard before promotes ni meat and alchol by giving the hall free if there will be vegetarian dinner without drinks and dancing but only 2 families in the last year have accepted this.

I am not condoning anyone's actions but when people tell me of a Sandesh to be implemented and the indivduals who attempt to implement this attend wedding of close family where they have meat and drinks I feel it hypocritical.

And Mental Singh, why dont you get an upto date original verdict from the Akal Takht on thier views and publish it, as your arguments continue about the Sandesh from them. I am still awaiting a reply as are other Gurdwara and we have spoken to them but we have not had anything in writing. I look forward to seeing an upto mandate from them.