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Beadbi At Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham


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How about having a discussion on the Sikh channel? I believe the Path Time programme highlighted this issue and both sides had some things to day. It might be better if there is a live discussion on the Sikh Channel between the Satkar Sewadars and the RST committee? If the committee refuses to attend then atleast all of Europe will know what Satkar issue is all about.

This is the whole problem with this Sikh channel/Sikh Council partnership.

How can you have free independent media when you are tied up to a council?

If you raise the issue of beadbi, you lose the vote bank of one of biggest Gurdwaras.

Watch how the Sikh channel will tip-toe around issues that involve the major Gurdwaras.

not to forget, Brit Asia are playing a promo for some Punjabi comedy where they have idiots dressed in fake long beards and gol dastars pretending to be Sants.

Cheers Davy Bal, for insulting Sikh Saroop yet again.

Cancel your direct debits - these guys will take us for a ride.

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The only hypocrites are those who post negativity about thier sikh brothers Ramgarhia on this forum and in general. This matter is going beyond a joke in that Ramgarhias are being targetted. Like it

Veerji, Welcome to the forum. From your personal viewpoint. Is the serving of alcohol, meat and acceptance of alcohol fuelled parties in a hall dedicated to a great panth rattan Baba Jassa Singh Ra

Malkeet Singh Ji, apparently the Akal Takht had a meeting which lasted three days to clarify eating meat amongst sikhs where all the senior scholars were asked to give a verdict, after the three days

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SANGAT UPDATE

Satkaar sevadars should get a petition going where they get sangats signature on who wants to stop the alcohol and meat beadbi in not just this Gurdwara, but all Gurdwaras in the UK. This way the gurnindaks cannot run and hide behind sangats name.

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Again with all due respect to the sangat, pls dont get offended by my words.

The provoking attitude of sikhpaji (who is clearly a committee member of rst) shows that any meeting would be a waste of time with apostates who have renounced gurmat.

I think sangat have escalated this enough and the only option is a peaceful demo outside rst party hall.

May maharaj bless these patits in rst with sikh jeevans. Pls maharaj, help them understand how evil sharab is.

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Sikhpaji - you are clearly a committee member of Ramgarhia Birmingham or very closely linked to it. If you're such a hero, why don't you reveal who you are before asking the same of others?

I think Satkaar are being very honourable and giving the committee every chance, despite having the likes of "Sikhpaji" making provocative and offensive statements. From the latest Satkaar update, it seems the committee are using the oldest tricks in the book to divert the issue, by branding the Satkaar campaign as extremist and casteist - TYPICAL, when they have nothing else to defend their actions.

No doubt, when the protest does eventually happen, the Ramgarhia Birmingham committee will turn round and say that they were never given a chance to meet to resollve this. It's been over a month now and they still refuse to meet. This shows they have something to hide and they know what they are doing is wrong, though they are too weak to overcome their own egos and close the party hall.

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As the issue comes to a boil, the committee will use some of the following propaganda:

Khalistani militant Sikhs are trying to stop us

They don't like Ramgharhia's

They jealous of the number of sangat we attract

Then personal attacks:

They own clubs and offys themselves.

Akal Tathkt are corrupt themselves, they in bed with Badal.

They will use these statements to get the sangat on their side.

We need well written rebuttals distributed to the sangat ready before hand

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This is the segment of the Panth Time programme (broadcasted on Sikh Channel - 4th December 2010) where Sri Akal Takht Sahib Jathedar expands on the 2006 Sandesh:

We should be grateful that Jathedar Singh Sahib Gianni Gurbachan Singh Ji phoned in live on such a topical issue to give further clarity. Even as the Jathedar of Akal Takht Sahib clarifies all issues, Dr PS Bhogal (seen sitting on 2nd from left on the front row of the audience) who represented not only the committee of RST but also Birmingham Council of Gurdwaras squabbled on the Panth Time show about why the party hall needed to exist.

It frustrates me that there are irreconcilable individuals perceived "fit" to be representative of the Khalsa Panth in UK Sikh councils and the Sikh Channel. We have seen too many of the self appointed individuals who twist Gurmat and misquote Gurbani to back their own agendas. I pray the SCUK grow out of this form of leadership which I believe has held progression back in UK Gurdwaras for the last 20 years.

On one side these individuals say that booze fuelled Gurdwara party halls are progressive for the Sikhs community and on the other side they verbally acknowledge alcohol related liver disease as a major killer in Sikh/Punjabi men. It's just embarrassing hypocrisy....

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This is the segment of the Panth Time programme (broadcasted on Sikh Channel - 4th December 2010) where Sri Akal Takht Sahib Jathedar Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji expands on the 2006 Sandesh:

Please can Sikhpaji and other members of RST take note.

6mins 30seconds into the video clip Dr Gurnaam Singh directly asks Jathedar ji for clarity on properties assumed to be outside the boundries of the Gurdwara but owned by the Gurdwara. Jathedar ji gives clarity that these properties are ONLY allowed to be used for Gurmat related activities only, MEAT, ALCOHOL OR DRUGS ARE NOT PERMITTED ON THESE PROPERTIES!

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The Satkaar campaign is not a formal body in any sense. It is neither a registered charity nor a private association, nor does it have any formal office or office-bearers. Rather, the Satkaar campaign, and its Sevadaars (i.e., Satkaar Sevadaars), is a UK Sangat-led grassroots Gurdwara reform movement, initially focused on preventing the gross sacrilege of parties, meat, alcohol and tobacco being permitted on Gurdwara premises or any premises funded with the Sangat's donations to Guru Ji's Golak. This cause, as an issue of concern for the UK Sangat, was formalised on Saturday 16 October 2010, when hundreds of concerned members of the UK Sangat – young and old, male and female, amritdhaari and non-amritdhaari, from all Panthic Jathebandiaan and backgrounds – travelled from far and wide to peacefully protest against a proposed party at Grays Gurdwara, which would see alcohol, tobacco and meat permitted on Gurdwara premises. With Guru Ji's blessings, the party was prevented from occurring. Subsequently, Grays and Edinburgh Gurdwaras have also agreed to close down their party halls.

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Just a reminder of the second amazing Hukumnama Dhan Dhan Sachay Patshay Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj blessed us with on Saturday 16 October 2010 during the Grays Morcha.

Dhanaasree mehlaa 5.

Dhanaasaree, Fifth Mehl:

doot dusman sabh tujh tay nivrahi pargat partaap tumaaraa.

All demons and enemies are eradicated by You, Lord; Your glory is manifest and radiant.

jo jo tayray bhagat dukhaa-ay oh tatkaal tum maaraa. ||1||

Whoever harms Your devotees, You destroy in an instant. ||1||

nirkha-o tumree or har neet.

I look to You continually, Lord.

muraar sahaa-ay hohu daas ka-o kar geh uDhrahu meet. rahaa-o.

O Lord, Destroyer of ego, please, be the helper and companion of Your slaves; take my hand, and save me, O my Friend! ||Pause||

sunee bayntee thaakur mayrai khasmaanaa kar aap.

My Lord and Master has heard my prayer, and given me His protection.

naanak anad bha-ay dukh bhaagay sadaa sadaa har jaap. ||2||13||44||

Nanak is in ecstasy, and his pains are gone; he meditates on the Lord, forever and ever. ||2||13||44||

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RST have released a statement to cover their tracks and pretend that they have been talking with the Satkaar Sevadars. Its amasing how they feel they are being bullied to follow maryada! That means they want to be free to do manmat....following Akal Takht Sahib Maryada is like being bullied.

http://www.rstbirmingham.com/

"Important - Satkaar Sewadars further threaten Maharaja Jassa Singh Hall and RST Members by sending out SMS Messages for a demonstration at Gurdwara - have your say to oppose this bullying.

Maharaja Jassa Singh Hall Update

Dear Members and Sadh Sangat Ji, The Gurdwara would like to inform you that a body called Satkaar Sewadaar have been putting immense pressure on the Committee in regards to the Hiring of MJSH and that it should not allow certain foods and drinks. The Committee have suggested a meeting date to discuss this but it seems that an email went out and posts on websites that ths was not the case. The Committee advised them that the decision will be made by the members of RST (especially as they implied it was the local sadh Sangat members who had complained)and a meeting for Mid January was proposed as key individuals from the Committee were abroad and the regular Members and Sadh Sangat needed to be consulted and also we need to establish who they represent and whether they represent as this is still unclear.. Satkaar Sewadars sent out an email stating we were unwilling to meet them, which is untrue. They have emailed again requesting another meeting yesterday. We would like your views on this and would welcome responses to info@rstbirmingham.com"

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RST have released a statement to cover their tracks and pretend that they have been talking with the Satkaar Sevadars. Its amasing how they feel they are being bullied to follow maryada! That means they want to be free to do manmat....following Akal Takht Sahib Maryada is like being bullied.

http://www.rstbirmingham.com/

"Important - Satkaar Sewadars further threaten Maharaja Jassa Singh Hall and RST Members by sending out SMS Messages for a demonstration at Gurdwara - have your say to oppose this bullying.

Maharaja Jassa Singh Hall Update

Dear Members and Sadh Sangat Ji, The Gurdwara would like to inform you that a body called Satkaar Sewadaar have been putting immense pressure on the Committee in regards to the Hiring of MJSH and that it should not allow certain foods and drinks. The Committee have suggested a meeting date to discuss this but it seems that an email went out and posts on websites that ths was not the case. The Committee advised them that the decision will be made by the members of RST (especially as they implied it was the local sadh Sangat members who had complained)and a meeting for Mid January was proposed as key individuals from the Committee were abroad and the regular Members and Sadh Sangat needed to be consulted and also we need to establish who they represent and whether they represent as this is still unclear.. Satkaar Sewadars sent out an email stating we were unwilling to meet them, which is untrue. They have emailed again requesting another meeting yesterday. We would like your views on this and would welcome responses to info@rstbirmingham.com"

Come on RST walay, be honest enough to refer to the fact that you allow meat and alcohol on MJSH instead of the vague reference of ‘Certain foods and drinks’. How spineless!

Anyway, this is Akal Takht's hukum, not Satkaar Sewaadars on anyone else. A committee that needs to give themselves several weeks to ban alcohol and meat on the pavitar Gurdwara premises are not worthy of calling themselves Panth sewaks. In my view they cannot have a Gurmat agenda. Shame on the RST Birmingham committee, who do not deserve to be representing the great misl of Baba Jassa Singh Ramgharia.

It is also evident that parties serving alcohol and meat have been still taking place on the MJSR Hall. On the 4th December 2010 a party took place at the Hall which which allowed khulla sharab and maas to be served. No doubt there's been several parties since then and there will be more to come. The Committee have shown no interest in addressing the issue and carry on entertaining manmat under Baba Jassa Singh's name. It's a terrible state of affairs.

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wjkk wjkf

RST website says "We would like your views on this and would welcome responses to info@rstbirmingham.com"

Dear all,

Can we all send a polite email (EVERYONE) and CC Satkar in the same email. Please raise your views and write if you are happy with serving of alcohol and meat etc. in the hall or not.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be polite in the email and simply give your view on the issue only.

REMEMBER, no personal attack or anything offensive.

RST have given us a chance to say something on this issue, so we should make the most of it.

Please DO NOT FORGET to CC satkar in the email which you will send you RST.

Satkar's email are: Satkaar@hotmail.co.uk

SatkaarSevadaars@hotmail.co.uk

wjkk wjkf

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wjkk wjkf

RST website says "We would like your views on this and would welcome responses to info@rstbirmingham.com"

Dear all,

Can we all send a polite email (EVERYONE) and CC Satkar in the same email. Please raise your views and write if you are happy with serving of alcohol and meat etc. in the hall or not.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be polite in the email and simply give your view on the issue only.

REMEMBER, no personal attack or anything offensive.

RST have given us a chance to say something on this issue, so we should make the most of it.

Please DO NOT FORGET to CC satkar in the email which you will send you RST.

Satkar's email are: Satkaar@hotmail.co.uk

SatkaarSevadaars@hotmail.co.uk

wjkk wjkf

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This is the latest update on the RST Webiste -

311 Update - The Commitee has responded to the Satkaar Sewadars with the following email today:-

Satkaar Sewadars, A Committee meeting took place yesterday on Sunday 2nd January 2011 at Ramgarhia Sikh Temple in which it was decided that no further bookings will be made for Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgarhia Hall where the families want to provide meat and alcohol and the commitee will be feeding back this information to the members and the sangat. The commitee is willing to meet with individuals representing the satkaar sewadars to discuss these matter on the 9th January at 2.30pm or 10th January 7.00pm as long as as agreed previously the names of all attending with who they represent is provided, along with the local sangat members who have approached you. Finally, the above has been agreed as long as the Satkaar Sewadars send out notices on the internet, post them by email and on Websites such as Sikh Sangat that the demonstration is cancelled and that there will be no future demonstrations. Finally we would also like to bring to your attention that we have received the following email from an individual; i would suggest that you discourage these emails as they will only create a break down in communication for the future and please forward communication to us.

Sent to Satkaat Sewadars was an email from Surjit Singh (surjit65@hotmail.co.uk) where he is swearing to picture posts and sending email to this effect to the gurdwara website).

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Fateh ji, just saw this on the RST website....

311 Update - The Commitee has responded to the Satkaar Sewadars with the following email today:-

Satkaar Sewadars, A Committee meeting took place yesterday on Sunday 2nd January 2011 at Ramgarhia Sikh Temple in which it was decided that no further bookings will be made for Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgarhia Hall where the families want to provide meat and alcohol and the commitee will be feeding back this information to the members and the sangat. The commitee is willing to meet with individuals representing the satkaar sewadars to discuss these matter on the 9th January at 2.30pm or 10th January 7.00pm as long as as agreed previously the names of all attending with who they represent is provided, along with the local sangat members who have approached you. Finally, the above has been agreed as long as the Satkaar Sewadars send out notices on the internet, post them by email and on Websites such as Sikh Sangat that the demonstration is cancelled and that there will be no future demonstrations. Finally we would also like to bring to your attention that we have received the following email from an individual; i would suggest that you discourage these emails as they will only create a break down in communication for the future and please forward communication to us.

Sent to Satkaat Sewadars was an email from Surjit Singh where he is swearing to picture posts and sending email to this effect to the gurdwara website).

This is FANTASTIC news, all credit goes to Satigur Akal Purkh for giving the opportunity to the UK Sangat to stop such a maha paap from ocurring any longer. Vadhiyaan to all Sikh Sangat who did their part!

A word of caution, I would not bow to the wishes of the RST who want the names etc put forward of the local sangat who were unhappy, so that they are then able to pressure them once the spotlight has moved off the Gurdwara. It is key that people who are disturbed by the manmat of party halls in Gurdwaray be confident in the fact that they can come to Satkaar with their worries and be confident in the fact that the Sevadaars will keep confidentiality, to protect their interests.

Also they request that there be no future demonstrations, I 'd advise against this too, as we are unable to see into the future, so this would be unwise - who knows - what happens if they revert to type?

I'm not sure how far the Satkaar people want to go, but note should also be taken of the "meat and alcohol", nothing re: Bhangra etc. Just an observation

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    • https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/afghanistans-sikhs-to-make-choice-between-converting-to-islam-or-leaving-country-report/articleshow/87204174.cms As the security scenario in Afghanistan continues to deteriorate, Sikhs -- a community that was already in a dire situation before the collapse of the government -- practically have to make a choice between options of "converting to Sunni Islam or run away" from Afghanistan, said a report.The community, which once numbered in the tens of thousands, has been ruined and devastated by years of emigration and death, driven by both systemic discrimination and an uptick in fanatical religious violence
    • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59015889   Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous? Published 4 hours ago Share IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES On a film set, a real-life tragedy has happened. Police say US actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on a film set in New Mexico. They were working on the film Rust. Tributes have been paid to Ms Hutchins, 42, while Mr Baldwin is said to be distraught. One local paper found him in tears outside Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office. An investigation is under way and we don't yet know what went wrong. A spokesman for Mr Baldwin said there had been an accident on the set involving the misfire of a prop gun with blanks. Such incidents are rare and the news has stunned the film industry. The use of firearms on set is subject to stringent safety standards. "On the film I recently made, even my plastic gun, I had to sign out, sign in every day," said Australian actor Rhys Muldoon. "So that's why this particular case is so incredibly baffling." Despite sounding innocuous, both prop guns and blanks can be dangerous. Here's what we know about them. What is a prop gun? Blanks are used in the film industry to imitate live ammunition. The reason they are so convincing is that blanks are essentially modified real bullets. While the term "bullet" is commonly used to describe what is loaded into weapons, more properly it is a cartridge that is loaded: a self-contained ammunition package made up of a casing holding an explosive powder that when fired, blasts out a projectile, or bullet. Blanks differ because although they use explosive they don't use a projectile. A prop gun could mean a range of items, from non-functioning weapons to cap guns. But it can also mean a real weapon, or one adapted for firing blanks. Together they add authenticity to productions - fire a blank using a prop gun and you'll get a loud bang, a recoil and what's known as a muzzle flash, the visible light created by the combustion of the powder. Has this kind of incident happened before? Yes. You may remember Brandon Lee, the actor son of martial arts legend Bruce Lee. Brandon Lee died aged just 28 in 1993 while filming The Crow, when a prop gun which mistakenly had a dummy round loaded in it was fired at him. Dummy rounds contain no explosive charge and in this case were used to film a close-up. When blanks were loaded part of the dummy round remained in the gun. After Lee was shot, the cameras kept rolling. It was only when he did not get up at the end of the scene that those on set realised something was wrong. In another incident, in 1984, US actor Jon-Erik Hexum started joking around on the set of a television show after being frustrated by delays in filming. He loaded a revolver with a blank, spun the chamber, put the gun to his temple and fired. Unlike Lee, he was not killed by a projectile, but rather the force of the blast was strong enough to fracture his skull. He died days later in hospital. How can blanks and props be used safely? Hexum's death highlights a problem with blanks - even without a projectile they pack enormous power. Adding to the risk, some film sets use extra powder to make the visual impact stronger. Film sets usually have strict rules about the use of prop guns. Specialists provide weapons for use on film sets and advise on their use. "There's basic safety measures on every set," said Mike Tristano, an armourer who has worked with Alec Baldwin in the past. "You never point a gun, even if it is not a firing gun, at anyone else. I'm at a loss how this could have happened and how it could have done that much damage." A common shot in film shows an actor firing into the camera and Steven Hall, who has worked on films such as Fury and The Imitation Game, says it only happens with safeguards. "If you are in the line of fire... You would have a face mask, you would have goggles, you would stand behind a Perspex screen, and you would minimise the number of people by the camera, " he said. "What I don't understand in this instance is how two people have been injured, one tragically killed, in the same event." Others working in film wondered why, at a time when gun effects can be cheaply added using computers, blanks are still being used at all. "There's no reason to have guns loaded with blanks or anything on set anymore. Should just be fully outlawed," tweeted Craig Zobel, an actor and director whose credits include Westworld and Mare of Easttown. "Prop guns are guns," TV writer David Slack tweeted. "Blanks have real gunpowder in them. They can injure or kill - and they have. If you're ever on a set where prop guns are treated without proper caution and safe handling, walk away. "No show or shot is worth risking people's lives," he added.
    • Gurbani tells parents not to impose on their children this way. Perhaps somebody knows the location or I'll see what I can find. It's either in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Varaan Bhai Gurdas Ji.  Once they know you are able to leave and have the backing of Gurmat perhaps you will find you have new bargaining power for the behaviors that are acceptable in your family. You don't have to be the man of your house just be a man of your house, who sticks to his guns, backs with Gurbani, and speaks the truth for Sarbat Da Bhala. You are not beholden to them. If they want that extra icing in life called multigenerational support of extended family they have to create an environment for all three of you to joyfully have families there. And earn your consent. It is a great thing to do, provide for the elders...when they respect you and help you create your own joyful life.  I am only now rekindling certain familial relationships after being brainwashed my whole life that I was a man at birth, responsible for my mother, and going to be her retirement. It's sick and deranged. I actually want to do all those things. They way people twist it into slavery is disgusting though, and I will have no part in one sided contracts honored only by me. A big turning point is when I realized they all expected that to be at the expense of me having my own life, family, etc. And that as a larger family none of them were worth anything. A bunch of shallow, nindaks, assimilated into white supremacy before my eyes. No thanks. Hypocritical. Lying. Scheeming.  Next.  Family is a team. It's everyone playing the same game, by the same rules, and working together or it's not. Either we all win or it's not working right.  Bro. You can move. You can take a sibling with you. The flamingos leave their babies do they not? Guru Nanak Dev Ji took off on foot did he not? You can stay too and lay it down bro. Calm, cool, calculated, chardikala and correct.  They get rude, bring in Sangat to witness and support you. It's your family business, be a pro. The parents don't listen and learn something off you go. If you respect your parents, respectfully tell them what they need to do to have the life they want. If it includes you. 
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