Sikh Council (Uk) - Launch On 11 December

[chatanga]

i dont think that having sikihsangat on sikhcouncil would be a good idea, cos they wouldnt let any ideas be discussed that they dont agree with, but just keep on deleting them.

[Pyara]

OK. I can at least see Satkaar's posting on the SCUK website.. Similar to Jagtar Singhs comments above, the response from SCUK revolves around passing back the responsibility to youth and women for not putting themselves forward.

Perhaps I'm just dubious to it all, but without any official acceptance by the elder prabhandaks there's not much opportunity for a youth or female voice. Even the whole Satkaar campaign is meeting resistance from some leaders with adverse commentary in Des Pardes and Punjab Times written by elders who promotes themselves as custodians on the uk Sikh community. The self appointed panels on "Panth Time" clearly show the cultural dynamics similar to the way most prabhandaks and jathebhandi's work in practice (predominantly old male voices). From my experiences and interactions, the only Gurdwaras who actively support a stand against beadbi by writing letters are the ones in which there are active young Sikhs in the committee. Apologies for generalising the elders.

As 2nd/3rd Generation British born Sikhs, we will have no legitimacy without a recognised Jathebhandi or our Gurdwara Committee adopting/grooming us and that seems highly unlikely as we will always be termed as "inexperienced" or "hot heads" even when we hit our late 30's. So unless you are male, over 50, not born in the UK and part of a Gurdwara committee/jathebhandi then I fail to see an opening existing in this SCUK for 2nd/3rd Generation British born Sikhs. I sincerely hope I am proved wrong in the future once this council takes off.

[SinghWarrior]

Sorry, but I have one thing to say. If it carries on like this, the Sikh Council UK is bound for failure. Reason is simple. If, as individuals, jathebandis or organisations who claim allegiance to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj and Akal Takht, we cannot take a stand openly to state that we condemn alcohol and meat on Guru Ji's premises, what kind of individuals, jathebandis or organisations are we? How can we expect that Guru Ji will do His Kirpaa and bless us with Chardikala?

The statements above by Jagtar Singh (aka Sikh Federation UK) and the Sikh Council UK on their website show dithering to the max on this issue. Rather than trying to build grand structures to claim legitimacy, true legitimacy (to Guru Ji and His Sangat) will come from Gurmat-oriented actions, and taking stands on (politically difficult) issues.

[Bundha]

the way I see it is that the UKSC is to be fashioned on how the misls ran in the 18th Century. All jathabandies will be represented and what unites us will be promoted rather then what divides us. Yes there are differences win various jathabandies, different groups and even different Gurdwaras but when issues arise, and the do all the time, which affect the panth as a whole then we have an organisation which can speak with one voice on the political stage, this can only be a good thing.

1. About beadbi in gurdwaras - I agree this is the most important issue that needs tackling, but you must let the creation of the organisation to take place before we can do anything.This is not some small group of people setting up some committee, this is over 100 Gurdwaray and jathas all with differing views differing ideas differing ways of doing things differing egos, differing agends all coming together to create ONE VOICE. this is no easy thing, this needs an immense amount of organising, immense amount of thinking, creating bringing people together , it is an humungous job. we should sport them is every way we can to get this council up and running, but instead we stand on the byline Let them first get the thing up and running. then you can lobby the council to tackle this issue, and beilive me it will be a lot easier when you have a council with over 100 gurdwaras/jathas behind them when tackling this but it has to be done at the right time.

2. On the discussion on the TV debate time and again it was said that they had expected more youth to come forward but very very few came forward. Now whose fault is that? Time and again it wa said that no body is self appointed they want people to come forward and put themsleves forward , they want professionals to take the lead, they want youth to come forward but none so far have done so. You cannot sit and wait to be handed responsibility you have to go out there and do it yourself. You need to get organised get the youth together form a group get support play the elders game and rally support get voted in then from the inside get more of your like minded people in then change it from the inside. get involved with the gurdwaray then

get selected to get on the UKSC, that is the wya to do it, nobody is going to hand it to you.

[chatanga]

I'm not trying to rock any boats but I expected transparency not censorship.

and you came to sikh sangat to say that? this is the last place for transparency, first for censorship.

[Pyara]

the way I see it is that the UKSC is to be fashioned on how the misls ran in the 18th Century. All jathabandies will be represented and what unites us will be promoted rather then what divides us. Yes there are differences win various jathabandies, different groups and even different Gurdwaras but when issues arise, and the do all the time, which affect the panth as a whole then we have an organisation which can speak with one voice on the political stage, this can only be a good thing.

1. About beadbi in gurdwaras - I agree this is the most important issue that needs tackling, but you must let the creation of the organisation to take place before we can do anything.This is not some small group of people setting up some committee, this is over 100 Gurdwaray and jathas all with differing views differing ideas differing ways of doing things differing egos, differing agends all coming together to create ONE VOICE. this is no easy thing, this needs an immense amount of organising, immense amount of thinking, creating bringing people together , it is an humungous job. we should sport them is every way we can to get this council up and running, but instead we stand on the byline Let them first get the thing up and running. then you can lobby the council to tackle this issue, and beilive me it will be a lot easier when you have a council with over 100 gurdwaras/jathas behind them when tackling this but it has to be done at the right time.

2. On the discussion on the TV debate time and again it was said that they had expected more youth to come forward but very very few came forward. Now whose fault is that? Time and again it wa said that no body is self appointed they want people to come forward and put themsleves forward , they want professionals to take the lead, they want youth to come forward but none so far have done so. You cannot sit and wait to be handed responsibility you have to go out there and do it yourself. You need to get organised get the youth together form a group get support play the elders game and rally support get voted in then from the inside get more of your like minded people in then change it from the inside. get involved with the gurdwaray then

get selected to get on the UKSC, that is the wya to do it, nobody is going to hand it to you.

It may just be my own experiences, but I believe there's more barriers to entry for young professional Sikhs or naam rasiya Gursikhs in Jathebhandis/Prabhandak committee then there are in general society. There's a greater probability for a young Sabat Sorat Sikh to get a high flying job in the city than be accepted in their local prabhandak committee or jathebhandi. That 40+ amritdhari, principled professional who does a raul sewa at the Gurdwara on weekends will be seen as more of a threat to some leaders than a sharabi kebabi party hall promoting pardaan.

You are 100% no one is going to hand it to you. But this statement that youth don't put themselves forwards is just a lame excuse engineered by those same people who still want to sit on the chairs of leadership and justify their long overdue reign as jathedaar...

Let's see if this SCUK mentor the next generation of Singhs and Singniya into leadership or just keep with the status quo of the last 26 years. We need revolutionary change, not the same bureaucratic predictability that has used the "lack of panthic ekta" as an excuse for not taking anything forward. If there's no Gurmat, then we will always struggle for panthic ekta. If SCUK do not use their existence to challenge anti Sikh committees who allow booze on the Gurdwara premises then the foundations will already be weakened by a lack of asool.

[sikhlionz]

agree with comments made by Satkaar. there's a lack of transparency particularly in larger GuruGhars, tv, radio channels, media, jathebandhis and other organisations reliant on Sangat's donations but not run according to their wishes. these have all failed our community over past decade yet the solution is to unify them into one collective unit which is even less accountable?

is this council not a collection of the most corrupt nefarious elements in our community?

no doubt i'm sure you'll take on a few youngsters and women to do the paperwork

[Pyara]

no doubt i'm sure you'll take on a few youngsters and women to do the paperwork

Ofcourse...somones got to make the tea and sharpen them pencils!

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

Sorry, but I have one thing to say. If it carries on like this, the Sikh Council UK is bound for failure. Reason is simple. If, as individuals, jathebandis or organisations who claim allegiance to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj and Akal Takht, we cannot take a stand openly to state that we condemn alcohol and meat on Guru Ji's premises, what kind of individuals, jathebandis or organisations are we? How can we expect that Guru Ji will do His Kirpaa and bless us with Chardikala?

The statements above by Jagtar Singh (aka Sikh Federation UK) and the Sikh Council UK on their website show dithering to the max on this issue. Rather than trying to build grand structures to claim legitimacy, true legitimacy (to Guru Ji and His Sangat) will come from Gurmat-oriented actions, and taking stands on (politically difficult) issues.

SCUK will only be able to take a stand on such issues:

i) after it is formed and up and running (you will appreciate an organisation can not take a stand before it is formed)

ii) if those affiliated member organisations collectively have an appetite to tackle such issues (if organisations that want such issues to be tackled choose not to affiliate they are giving an opportunity to those that wish to avoid such issues from being addressed by the SCUK)

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

It may just be my own experiences, but I believe there's more barriers to entry for young professional Sikhs or naam rasiya Gursikhs in Jathebhandis/Prabhandak committee then there are in general society. There's a greater probability for a young Sabat Sorat Sikh to get a high flying job in the city than be accepted in their local prabhandak committee or jathebhandi. That 40+ amritdhari, principled professional who does a raul sewa at the Gurdwara on weekends will be seen as more of a threat to some leaders than a sharabi kebabi party hall promoting pardaan.

You are 100% no one is going to hand it to you. But this statement that youth don't put themselves forwards is just a lame excuse engineered by those same people who still want to sit on the chairs of leadership and justify their long overdue reign as jathedaar...

Let's see if this SCUK mentor the next generation of Singhs and Singniya into leadership or just keep with the status quo of the last 26 years. We need revolutionary change, not the same bureaucratic predictability that has used the "lack of panthic ekta" as an excuse for not taking anything forward. If there's no Gurmat, then we will always struggle for panthic ekta. If SCUK do not use their existence to challenge anti Sikh committees who allow booze on the Gurdwara premises then the foundations will already be weakened by a lack of asool.

You can contact the SCUK via email and put yourself forward to be one of the 21 to be co-opted on to the Executive Committee of 51. You can also volunteer for one of the seven sub-committees depending on your specialism and interest.