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Sikh Council (Uk) - Launch On 11 December


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Had i been asked 3 years ago when i was still in my early 20's that why haven't our Gurughars been able to get our youth actively involved, i would have said that its the olders on the committee are to blame as they only caring about their 'chaudar'.

3 years later i stil feel thats true but the youth have to share that blame too (as chatanga jee has said). The majority of us don't want to join not because of the politics (but thats what we say) but its actually down to the committment. All the youth in my area that joined the committee, left within 3 months and the major reason was that they couldn't give the time that was required. To be apart of large Gurdwara committee's requires alot of commitment and alot of responsibility. Now i know there can be alot of politics in committee's but no less than the politics we see at work, wihin our friens, heck Singh's nowadays have got too much akhar to say Gurphateh to another Singh.

If someone really wants to make a change you have to get involved, whether its a Gurdwara or the Sikh Council. If you don't want to get involved then as stated above, its better not to comment and leave those involved to it!

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I posted the below message on the topic "Are Panthic Jathebandis Still Active?". I feel this message is also applicable to this topic:-

As detailed by Southall Youth, Sikh Federation are ISYF renamed, however, they have evolved.

They have evolved from being an ineffective “wave your arms in the air in an angry fashion (ISYF)” kind of party, to a party who are applying effective lobbying strategies which give a political party credibility and actually work when pursuing political objectives.

The problem with Sikh Federation is that they can’t get enough Sikhs to support them, which has a direct impact on their lobbying capabilities (therefore their lobby is nowhere near as effective as it could be). For this very reason, the Sikh Federation are supporting the new Sikh Council, for the sole reason of uniting the UK Sikh Panth, because they know that if the Sikhs can speak with one united voice and have the numbers to back it up, we would have a very strong political party who’s lobbying has real power. If this dream was to be realised, and the government went against the Sikhs on a particular issue, we would be able to effectively mobilise a large number of the 700,000 strong Sikh population through this organisation and have a direct impact on general elections (i.e. swing the vote for/against the govt in certain regions within the country) which could be the difference between them winning or losing an election. Now when a govt knows your lobby has that kind of power, they are going to listen to you and help you with your community issues.

So my hope is that even though we may not be able to agree on all issues, lets unite behind the Sikh Council so that we can fight for our rights (lobby) on the big political issues effecting our community at a national level and no longer be the only major religion with zero political clout. And if the Sikh Council is not perfect, then lets get in there ourselves and change it from the inside, and if they don’t let us do that, then lets build strategies to change the Sikh Council for the better, but don’t make the mistake of giving up on this vision as this vision is our only political avenue, we have no other choice.

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There is a desperate need for Sikh issues to be raiswed on a single platform. Small groups have failed and foreign govts end up playing one group against the other, the net result nothing gets done. The Jews are very good at pushing there views with govts because they have a recognised organisation that carries weight with the Govt. Even the BBC changes its news reports if the Jews object. We have so many important issues such as Identity and justice for Sikhs that we need to do something quickly or we will end up without any real rights. Muslims and Hindus have their respective Governments which raise their issues with foreign Govts., we do not have that luxury.

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why when people state genuine concerns do we gang up and issue threats to silence them rather than addressing the problems?

many of those who don't support this new council have taken active roles in these "organisations", for many years.

Guru Ji would probably advocate keeping cauldrons of burning hot oil ready for those who abuse their responsibilities.

someone called this "progress". do you think these people have achieved so much over 3 decades that we now need an entire BOARD OF JATHEDARS? are you kidding?!

i guess the blind follow the blind like sheep.

these self-proclaimed "leaders" who between them have collectively achieved sod all over the last 3 decades, if you still want to blindly follow them and give them even more influence then arent you equally to blame for the mess that will come in the next generation?

you should be asking your "leaders" what they have achieved with all the manpower and donations they've had? where did it all go?

these guys have been at the forefront of creating splits in our community in terms of caste, meat/sharaab, politics, links to punjab parties, rehit, taking stances against banis, supporting darshan lal and so on.

do you think the government is stupid? they want to avoid giving us our rights at ANY cost. the only way to get our rights is by connecting to our grassroots - uniting monay and amritdhari, encouraging them to become stronger in sikhi & from that build strongly founded organisations.

this is the opposite, a council very loosely connected to religious institutions mismanaged by thugs and gangsters. you are bringing politics into faith not faith into politics, the complete OPPOSITE of what our Gurus did. this is why we remain so divided.

our media channels, our religious institutions and our new council are all run by people who are not only far from sikhi but actively only interested in how to make money from the faith and how to promote themselves.

if any of this is not true, why not ask each affiliate member to show how many baniaan they have bothered to memorise?

how many of your affiliates dish out bottles of alcohol to get elected? or use violence to maintain a vice-grip on their kursia? even mr bal at sikh channel loves them so long as they encourage people to subscribe, provide funds and give access to record events. they all siphon off the top like they do with building projects. this is not sikhee its called RACKETEERING.

so many people are put off sikhee because of these people. people from all communities see Guru Ji as inspirational but when they see so many of our institutions and organisations led by these lowlifes, training up and moulding generations in their own image rather than GuruJi's its disgraceful.

rather than get rid of the weeds, this gives them more publicity & entrenches their tentacles further into our community. i dont want to see other youngsters get duped by these old fogeys who are desperate for the limelight, jathedaris and siropas.

those youngsters who wish to do sewa may be better off helping in GuruGhars or starting small, local groups with simple aims and achieve them. leave these lot to it.

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why when people state genuine concerns do we gang up and issue threats to silence them rather than addressing the problems?

many of those who don't support this new council have taken active roles in these "organisations", for many years.

Guru Ji would probably advocate keeping cauldrons of burning hot oil ready for those who abuse their responsibilities.

someone called this "progress". do you think these people have achieved so much over 3 decades that we now need an entire BOARD OF JATHEDARS? are you kidding?!

i guess the blind follow the blind like sheep.

these self-proclaimed "leaders" who between them have collectively achieved sod all over the last 3 decades, if you still want to blindly follow them and give them even more influence then arent you equally to blame for the mess that will come in the next generation?

you should be asking your "leaders" what they have achieved with all the manpower and donations they've had? where did it all go?

these guys have been at the forefront of creating splits in our community in terms of caste, meat/sharaab, politics, links to punjab parties, rehit, taking stances against banis, supporting darshan lal and so on.

do you think the government is stupid? they want to avoid giving us our rights at ANY cost. the only way to get our rights is by connecting to our grassroots - uniting monay and amritdhari, encouraging them to become stronger in sikhi & from that build strongly founded organisations.

this is the opposite, a council very loosely connected to religious institutions mismanaged by thugs and gangsters. you are bringing politics into faith not faith into politics, the complete OPPOSITE of what our Gurus did. this is why we remain so divided.

our media channels, our religious institutions and our new council are all run by people who are not only far from sikhi but actively only interested in how to make money from the faith and how to promote themselves.

if any of this is not true, why not ask each affiliate member to show how many baniaan they have bothered to memorise?

how many of your affiliates dish out bottles of alcohol to get elected? or use violence to maintain a vice-grip on their kursia? even mr bal at sikh channel loves them so long as they encourage people to subscribe, provide funds and give access to record events. they all siphon off the top like they do with building projects. this is not sikhee its called RACKETEERING.

so many people are put off sikhee because of these people. people from all communities see Guru Ji as inspirational but when they see so many of our institutions and organisations led by these lowlifes, training up and moulding generations in their own image rather than GuruJi's its disgraceful.

rather than get rid of the weeds, this gives them more publicity & entrenches their tentacles further into our community. i dont want to see other youngsters get duped by these old fogeys who are desperate for the limelight, jathedaris and siropas.

those youngsters who wish to do sewa may be better off helping in GuruGhars or starting small, local groups with simple aims and achieve them. leave these lot to it.

So much venom, anger and accusations, painting and tarnishing all Sikh Gurdwaras, Institutions, organisations with the same brush of corruption, racketeering etc. No wonder there is no leadership or direction from some of our youth and the mis-trust between some of them and the elder generation.

I am rinded of the quote ' from acorns to big trees', it would be great for youngsters to do as ammrita states, but do not criticise negativley about others, work on your strengths and lead by example.

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you should be asking your "leaders" what they have achieved with all the manpower and donations they've had? where did it all go?

if any of this is not true, why not ask each affiliate member to show how many baniaan they have bothered to memorise?

how many of your affiliates dish out bottles of alcohol to get elected? or use violence to maintain a vice-grip on their kursia?

get off your arse and go ask them. then come back and share.

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i dont look to them for the answers anymore. that's what sheep do.

well done for avoiding all the real issues discussed in my post.

i've already been part of your organisations but unlike some am capable to think for myself now. i got off my arse and did more for your groups than you have, my young billy goat.

besides i'm not the one claiming to run jathebandhis and organisations and then milking sangat for funds. there isnt one tyaar bar tyaar singh in these organisations, they're majority old biffers fattened up on all the jalebiaan and pakoray they been eating for 3 decades at Sangat's expense yet achieving little in return.

you keep following the sheep in front of you into the pen and leave the rest of us youth to not be the political puppets of traitor old fogeys.

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There is a desperate need for Sikh issues to be raiswed on a single platform. Small groups have failed and foreign govts end up playing one group against the other, the net result nothing gets done. The Jews are very good at pushing there views with govts because they have a recognised organisation that carries weight with the Govt. Even the BBC changes its news reports if the Jews object. We have so many important issues such as Identity and justice for Sikhs that we need to do something quickly or we will end up without any real rights. Muslims and Hindus have their respective Governments which raise their issues with foreign Govts., we do not have that luxury.

Isingh has hit the nail on the head.

when we as Sikhs get stopped at airports the authorities do not look if we are "self proclaimed leaders" or hold pardhan chairs, they do not look if we are jatha this, that, or the other. they do not care if we are jatt or Bhatra or takhan, they will ask you to remove your turban for a search........and we have to.

when we get issues with the kirpan, the authorities do not say he is AKJ or Taksali or is an old-duffer pardhan , they will ask you to remove the kirpan..........and we have to.

We as a community hold no clout, the authorities play us off against each other. One group goes to the government and asks for X, another will deliberatly go and ask for Y. The government plays each other off and has an excuse to delay any decision which they never wanted to make in the first place.

THE ONLY WAY is to speak with one voice.

This has nothing to do with old-duffers, or tyiar-par tyiar, those are different issues. This issue is specific - we need to speak to the authorities (who ever they are ) with ONE VOICE. If that means that the most capable person is a mona-sikh who is versed in disccusions and is articulate and put the points across forcefully and most of all.... CAN SPEAK ENGLISH without the err and err and err within every other word.............then so be it !

All we have is people with so much negativity who will never in a million years do anything themselves but will not allow others to do so.

Time an again this phrase comes up "those self appointed people" - here we have a council made up of all the affiliated gurdwaras so no-one is "self appointed" they are crying out for young people to join them, but the "young" people are too busy with sitting on their back-sides moaning and complaining.

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Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain

Dharam cannot spread without Political power...but Political power must be subversent to Dharam. When Dharam is neglected..then absoulte power will be corrupted.

If the SCUK develop an "appetite" (as Jagtar Singh put it) for relevent Gurdwara issue then we will see some changes. If it's all focused on the way things are done currently then we will just formalise the status quo. That's my only personal concern.

I apologise if my tone has appeared negative regarding this committee. I sincerely hope SCUK does evolve into being a positive voice for the UK Sikh community, I just have my own greviences....but that shouldn't stop others taking an active and postive role.

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There are about 300 hundred Gurdwaras in the UK. Some are run very well in a progressive fashion and some are run by Pardhans who only care about chodhr. Ultimately this is just a fact of life and reflects society in general, not everybody is bad and nor is everybody good. Now the fact is, our grandparents and parents came to this country mainly in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s and with very little education, with no support network in the UK, without the ability to effectively communicate is English, without any major funding and were able to establish lots of Gurdwaras along with Punjabi Schools etc in this country. There’s no doubt about it, they are by no means perfect, but what have we youngsters done to build upon the foundations they have given us? Have we taken them to the next level? The answer is not very much and no. I know there are Gurdwaras in this country, where the pardhans have them locked down for their own purposes, but they do not represent all Sikh Gurdwaras and we should not take such a pessimistic view.

Now if we have a Sikh Council that we know represents the majority of Gurdwaras or at least can influence them. Then we at least have a single point of attack if we want to achieve reform within Gurdwaras. The alternative is to try and reform each individual Gurdwara on an individual basis which is unrealistic and usually gets relayed out to the local sangat as thuggery by Singhs (alienating the local Sangat).

So give the Sikh Council a chance, as not doing so will mean that we remain stagnant. Trying for change (regardless of the outcome) is better then doing nothing.

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