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Sikh Council (Uk) - Launch On 11 December

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ii) if those affiliated member organisations collectively have an appetite to tackle such issues (if organisations that want such issues to be tackled choose not to affiliate they are giving an opportunity to those that wish to avoid such issues from being addressed by the SCUK)

With all due respect. What's "appetite" got to do with it? Gurmat is Gurmat and the SCUK need to base their asool and affiliations on Gurmat and not just building a membership list with anyone who walks through the door.

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agree with comments made by Satkaar. there's a lack of transparency particularly in larger GuruGhars, tv, radio channels, media, jathebandhis and other organisations reliant on Sangat's donations but not run according to their wishes. these have all failed our community over past decade yet the solution is to unify them into one collective unit which is even less accountable?

is this council not a collection of the most corrupt nefarious elements in our community?

no doubt i'm sure you'll take on a few youngsters and women to do the paperwork :)

Individual GuruGhars, tv, radio channels, media, jathebandhis etc. need to be individually accountable or should not be supported by the Sangat. I can only speak for the Sikh Federation (UK) since it was set up in September 2003. The way the SCUK is being set up should ensure much greater openness and accountability. Give it a chance rather than criticise before it is even set up and working . . .

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Individual GuruGhars, tv, radio channels, media, jathebandhis etc. need to be individually accountable or should not be supported by the Sangat. I can only speak for the Sikh Federation (UK) since it was set up in September 2003. The way the SCUK is being set up should ensure much greater openness and accountability. Give it a chance rather than criticise before it is even set up and working . . .

i've supported in many of these organisations and seen how each is run before taking a stance. difference is i realise when the time is up and a fresh start is needed. in order to plant something new, you have to clear out the weeds and the dead wood lest they ruin the next crop.

same way if this organisation is going to be full of these CORRUPT individuals who have failed us with their dodgy dealings in media, jathey, gurughars, politics etc over past 2 decades then this will go the same way.

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The UK needs a collective and pro-active Sikh Youth Federation which will tackle issues relating to the youth and the panth in their own (logical and straightforward) manner, their's no point being a small voice amongst a group of ego's which the Sikh Council will no doubt be. The youth need to take responsibility for their future and that of the next generations.

As sikhlionz said "is this council not a collection of the most corrupt nefarious elements in our community?"

It's these same pardhaans who have stood in the way of progress in the past, whom are now being brought together one a single platform, is this really going to help us.

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Become a part of it and make changes rather than staying aside and wait for the magic to happen. Agreed that there are many or some bad qualities in everyone and agreed that some of us can't even think of joining hands with them but however it is not their fault.. having a HUGE lack of proper *sikhi* education in our community and nobody taking any initiatives in that direction, i think we need to start someplace where we won't feel comfortable.. Join them and bring changes.. If you get pulled down, try it again & again.. i think the only possible outcome is when a group of positive mindset ppl join any org/council then only we will be able to bring the change.. Educating others in friendly manner brings more closer to positive community instead of forcing rules and codes on em..

There are lot of hue and cry that they should allow YOUTH to come forward etc..well in my experience youth are never to be seen in reality when there is need for them....

I am not speaking on behalf of the new upcoming council nor i know any of them but my point is that we need to have TO DO attitude rather than sitting criticizing others. Compromise is very much needed in this world in order to get something done.. without it, its just impossible to do anything in our kaum as we are left few decades behind in almost every major field..

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Compromise is very much needed in this world in order to get something done.. without it, its just impossible to do anything in our kaum as we are left few decades behind in almost every major field..

Depends what gets Compromised and how much middle ground gets created for Compromise. Someone above mentioned Gurmat, in most cases we cannot compromise on Gurmat principles and concerns that this council is already compromising by allowing committees who abuse the golak to take a lead.

I see this Council as nothing more than a re-brand of what already exists out there at the moment, same item different packaging with almost predictable personalities pushing themselves forward and being selected to lead it. These personalities are highly unlikely to sit on the backbench and let fresh thinkers take the lead. So all we will end up with is the same personalities that stifled any progression in the last 20 years, but this time they will be under one committee.

Just like the Gurdwara Prabhandak committee structure, putting a token youth or woman in there just to show equality will not change anything. The strings are always pulled by the same people. From my own experiences unless you have a majority of like minded innovative principled Gursikhs leading, one or two strong candidates will struggle to make any valuable changes.

Sikhs have lost the scope for personal development, we have not shaped our youth or women into leaders because the elders have not been willing to give up their authority. Not only do we have a generation gap, but a cultural gap, a gender gap and an educational gap in our leadership. Unless they are willing to now step down and promote new personalities forward I fail to see what this Council will provide but a repeat of the last 20 years.

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So much negativity, then we think why are we not succeeding. I too may be a bit 'nervy' about this council, but we need to give it a chance. I do not support Mahatami Ghandi, indeed i think he betrayed the Sikhs, but there is one of his quotes that is used a lot by Westerners, that i think is relevant here:

''You must be the change you want to see in the world''

So get involved.

From what i saw on the Sikh Channel and Sangat TV over the weekend, we do seem to have some Sikh professional involved.

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I think it sounds like an amazing idea and no doubt it has not been an easy thing at all to get it to this stage. So my thanks to everyone invloved.

This just sounds like a great way for all Gurdwards & Jathabandia to come together and unite with our common goals, interests and future and actually work together to make a difference, rather than bickering about our small differences.

So for all those criticising - no offence but don't just talk the talk, walk the walk too... It is all good and well saying it will only be same faces there or the same sort of work done in the past HOWEVER if you will not get up and get involved, then don't talk anything about those countless sevadaar who do see it as their duty to do panthic work and take their time out and do so.

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there's a lack of transparency particularly in larger GuruGhars, tv, radio channels, media, jathebandhis and other organisations reliant on Sangat's donations but not run according to their wishes. these have all failed our community over past decade yet the solution is to unify them into one collective unit which is even less accountable?

is this council not a collection of the most corrupt nefarious elements in our community?

It may be unless we get on board and show them how to do it. failing that, it is best to keep quiet, and let those who are prepared to get off their butts and work for progress, try instead. The council is going ahead.

Sikhs have lost the scope for personal development, we have not shaped our youth or women into leaders because the elders have not been willing to give up their authority. Not only do we have a generation gap, but a cultural gap, a gender gap and an educational gap in our leadership. Unless they are willing to now step down and promote new personalities forward I fail to see what this Council will provide but a repeat of the last 20 years.

Why cant we shape ourself? The elders ceratinly have failed the youths, but thats no reason for the youths to wait for the green light from elders, before they start doing anything themselves. The Youths are as much to blame as the elders, cos a lot of todays youths are poossys, especially when it comes to sewa, or new intitiatives, in gurdwaras. most of these poossys just use the lame excuse that the elders wont let us etc, and walk off. This attitude of the youths is just as bad, as the short-sightedness of the elders. There are many things that Sikh youths cvould be doing in gurdwaras. If you need help on what you can do, you can contact me.

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Had i been asked 3 years ago when i was still in my early 20's that why haven't our Gurughars been able to get our youth actively involved, i would have said that its the olders on the committee are to blame as they only caring about their 'chaudar'.

3 years later i stil feel thats true but the youth have to share that blame too (as chatanga jee has said). The majority of us don't want to join not because of the politics (but thats what we say) but its actually down to the committment. All the youth in my area that joined the committee, left within 3 months and the major reason was that they couldn't give the time that was required. To be apart of large Gurdwara committee's requires alot of commitment and alot of responsibility. Now i know there can be alot of politics in committee's but no less than the politics we see at work, wihin our friens, heck Singh's nowadays have got too much akhar to say Gurphateh to another Singh.

If someone really wants to make a change you have to get involved, whether its a Gurdwara or the Sikh Council. If you don't want to get involved then as stated above, its better not to comment and leave those involved to it!

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I posted the below message on the topic "Are Panthic Jathebandis Still Active?". I feel this message is also applicable to this topic:-

As detailed by Southall Youth, Sikh Federation are ISYF renamed, however, they have evolved.

They have evolved from being an ineffective “wave your arms in the air in an angry fashion (ISYF)” kind of party, to a party who are applying effective lobbying strategies which give a political party credibility and actually work when pursuing political objectives.

The problem with Sikh Federation is that they can’t get enough Sikhs to support them, which has a direct impact on their lobbying capabilities (therefore their lobby is nowhere near as effective as it could be). For this very reason, the Sikh Federation are supporting the new Sikh Council, for the sole reason of uniting the UK Sikh Panth, because they know that if the Sikhs can speak with one united voice and have the numbers to back it up, we would have a very strong political party who’s lobbying has real power. If this dream was to be realised, and the government went against the Sikhs on a particular issue, we would be able to effectively mobilise a large number of the 700,000 strong Sikh population through this organisation and have a direct impact on general elections (i.e. swing the vote for/against the govt in certain regions within the country) which could be the difference between them winning or losing an election. Now when a govt knows your lobby has that kind of power, they are going to listen to you and help you with your community issues.

So my hope is that even though we may not be able to agree on all issues, lets unite behind the Sikh Council so that we can fight for our rights (lobby) on the big political issues effecting our community at a national level and no longer be the only major religion with zero political clout. And if the Sikh Council is not perfect, then lets get in there ourselves and change it from the inside, and if they don’t let us do that, then lets build strategies to change the Sikh Council for the better, but don’t make the mistake of giving up on this vision as this vision is our only political avenue, we have no other choice.

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There is a desperate need for Sikh issues to be raiswed on a single platform. Small groups have failed and foreign govts end up playing one group against the other, the net result nothing gets done. The Jews are very good at pushing there views with govts because they have a recognised organisation that carries weight with the Govt. Even the BBC changes its news reports if the Jews object. We have so many important issues such as Identity and justice for Sikhs that we need to do something quickly or we will end up without any real rights. Muslims and Hindus have their respective Governments which raise their issues with foreign Govts., we do not have that luxury.

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why when people state genuine concerns do we gang up and issue threats to silence them rather than addressing the problems?

many of those who don't support this new council have taken active roles in these "organisations", for many years.

Guru Ji would probably advocate keeping cauldrons of burning hot oil ready for those who abuse their responsibilities.

someone called this "progress". do you think these people have achieved so much over 3 decades that we now need an entire BOARD OF JATHEDARS? are you kidding?!

i guess the blind follow the blind like sheep.

these self-proclaimed "leaders" who between them have collectively achieved sod all over the last 3 decades, if you still want to blindly follow them and give them even more influence then arent you equally to blame for the mess that will come in the next generation?

you should be asking your "leaders" what they have achieved with all the manpower and donations they've had? where did it all go?

these guys have been at the forefront of creating splits in our community in terms of caste, meat/sharaab, politics, links to punjab parties, rehit, taking stances against banis, supporting darshan lal and so on.

do you think the government is stupid? they want to avoid giving us our rights at ANY cost. the only way to get our rights is by connecting to our grassroots - uniting monay and amritdhari, encouraging them to become stronger in sikhi & from that build strongly founded organisations.

this is the opposite, a council very loosely connected to religious institutions mismanaged by thugs and gangsters. you are bringing politics into faith not faith into politics, the complete OPPOSITE of what our Gurus did. this is why we remain so divided.

our media channels, our religious institutions and our new council are all run by people who are not only far from sikhi but actively only interested in how to make money from the faith and how to promote themselves.

if any of this is not true, why not ask each affiliate member to show how many baniaan they have bothered to memorise?

how many of your affiliates dish out bottles of alcohol to get elected? or use violence to maintain a vice-grip on their kursia? even mr bal at sikh channel loves them so long as they encourage people to subscribe, provide funds and give access to record events. they all siphon off the top like they do with building projects. this is not sikhee its called RACKETEERING.

so many people are put off sikhee because of these people. people from all communities see Guru Ji as inspirational but when they see so many of our institutions and organisations led by these lowlifes, training up and moulding generations in their own image rather than GuruJi's its disgraceful.

rather than get rid of the weeds, this gives them more publicity & entrenches their tentacles further into our community. i dont want to see other youngsters get duped by these old fogeys who are desperate for the limelight, jathedaris and siropas.

those youngsters who wish to do sewa may be better off helping in GuruGhars or starting small, local groups with simple aims and achieve them. leave these lot to it.

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why when people state genuine concerns do we gang up and issue threats to silence them rather than addressing the problems?

many of those who don't support this new council have taken active roles in these "organisations", for many years.

Guru Ji would probably advocate keeping cauldrons of burning hot oil ready for those who abuse their responsibilities.

someone called this "progress". do you think these people have achieved so much over 3 decades that we now need an entire BOARD OF JATHEDARS? are you kidding?!

i guess the blind follow the blind like sheep.

these self-proclaimed "leaders" who between them have collectively achieved sod all over the last 3 decades, if you still want to blindly follow them and give them even more influence then arent you equally to blame for the mess that will come in the next generation?

you should be asking your "leaders" what they have achieved with all the manpower and donations they've had? where did it all go?

these guys have been at the forefront of creating splits in our community in terms of caste, meat/sharaab, politics, links to punjab parties, rehit, taking stances against banis, supporting darshan lal and so on.

do you think the government is stupid? they want to avoid giving us our rights at ANY cost. the only way to get our rights is by connecting to our grassroots - uniting monay and amritdhari, encouraging them to become stronger in sikhi & from that build strongly founded organisations.

this is the opposite, a council very loosely connected to religious institutions mismanaged by thugs and gangsters. you are bringing politics into faith not faith into politics, the complete OPPOSITE of what our Gurus did. this is why we remain so divided.

our media channels, our religious institutions and our new council are all run by people who are not only far from sikhi but actively only interested in how to make money from the faith and how to promote themselves.

if any of this is not true, why not ask each affiliate member to show how many baniaan they have bothered to memorise?

how many of your affiliates dish out bottles of alcohol to get elected? or use violence to maintain a vice-grip on their kursia? even mr bal at sikh channel loves them so long as they encourage people to subscribe, provide funds and give access to record events. they all siphon off the top like they do with building projects. this is not sikhee its called RACKETEERING.

so many people are put off sikhee because of these people. people from all communities see Guru Ji as inspirational but when they see so many of our institutions and organisations led by these lowlifes, training up and moulding generations in their own image rather than GuruJi's its disgraceful.

rather than get rid of the weeds, this gives them more publicity & entrenches their tentacles further into our community. i dont want to see other youngsters get duped by these old fogeys who are desperate for the limelight, jathedaris and siropas.

those youngsters who wish to do sewa may be better off helping in GuruGhars or starting small, local groups with simple aims and achieve them. leave these lot to it.

So much venom, anger and accusations, painting and tarnishing all Sikh Gurdwaras, Institutions, organisations with the same brush of corruption, racketeering etc. No wonder there is no leadership or direction from some of our youth and the mis-trust between some of them and the elder generation.

I am rinded of the quote ' from acorns to big trees', it would be great for youngsters to do as ammrita states, but do not criticise negativley about others, work on your strengths and lead by example.

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