Gurdwara Phardaan. Should They Be Of Full Sikh Apperance.

[VanHelsingh]

@ Whitehorse - "If they find it so twisted, why don't they move back to the Punjab?"

I wouldn't go that far either! :D

Our ancestral homeland does have its fair share of issues, most of which I despair that such things could happen. As much as I prefer living in the West, its not perfect by any means. The greatest 'triumph' of the West (if one can refer to it in this manner) is the illusion of democracy and freedom that it provides. Whereas the actual truth is so far from these 'hallowed' ideals its actually quite terrifying. But anyways that's another debate for another day.

Anyway like I said before, the upper echelons of the Gurudwara must be occupied by people of full Sikhi saroop, with the requisite knowledge and lifestyle that being a true Gursikh entails. Otherwise how would it motivate 'relaxed' Sikhs to aspire to be of full Sikhi saroop if everything is chilled out and "chalo koi ni" in the very place where SIkhi should be thriving?

Although I also understand SinghWarrior's point. Its a pickle!!!

[Pyara]

All Pardaans should ideally be Amritdhaari and in full Sikhi Saroop, since they should be role models. However, not everything is black and white. At Grays Gurdwara, you had a mona president completely against the party hall and telling the locals not to have the party hall. On the other hand, you had "Amritdharis" who were pushing for the party hall. In this case, I prefer the mona as president, who at least stands for sikhi principles, despite acknowledging his own personal shortcomings.

That's a valid point. Ironic as it sounds, the pardaan of Grays Gurdwara (who was a mona) was more panthic than the other "Sikhi saroop" committee members. ..There's no way the Grays beadbi situation would have been resolved if some of those "sikhi saroop" committee members were in the lead as they were pro party hall.

It's a shame....Things aint as clear cut as we'd like them to be...

[Only five]

@ onlyfive - In your western twisted world where hell is the destination, your argument would be true.

I always find it amusing when people benefiting from all the comforts the West offers (democracy, free education, good healthcare, freedom to worship, good infrastructure, free media) describe it as being twisted.

If they find it so twisted, why don't they move back to the Punjab?

In any case, the Pardhaan is typically elected by the sangat, so the Sangat can make their own judgement on what they believe is important - a full Sikh or a Sikh who has the ability to manage a Gurdwara and promote its role within the local community. A full Sikh may be the best person to do that - or may not be.

It's a shame when people don't understand clear sentences, but consider themselves to be some really educated........

If you read the sentence, which you're hung up over, clearly then it say YOUR western twisted world. NOT the western world of Canada, USA, UK or where ever. BUT YOUR western twisted world. In the real western world the executive officer represent the company to the full extent. If the company is a green company then the executive officer is green. If they are about sharing the wealth with certain charities then the executive officer implements that in his job. If they have to dress a certain way, then the CEO does it. In YOUR twisted world that is not true.

ONly Sabat Soorat people that have full sharda(faith and devotion) for Guru Sahib should ever be Pardhans. This is not saying all mona are bad. This a requirment for the Khalsa Panth if you want to lead a Gurdwara. How are you going to have a representative that does not even follow the most easist requirements. Keep hair uncut. What kind of message is that sending out to the rest of the Sikhs that want to be in Sikhi. The kathavachak is telling the sangat to keep hair uncut, but in walks a mona who is the Pardhaan of this Gurdwara. Hes put in a top position and the rest of the sangat isn't. What kind of teachings is he going to give the sangat. Don't cut your hair? how can he say that when he does it himself. How can he walk in a meeting with Panthic people and ask them to follow Panthic duties when he don't follow the easiest one himself? He has no stand, even though his views could be or are Panthic. This is a double standard for people in postions of leading and those that are apart of the sangat only. Guru Sahib is against this behavior.

This is not a either or decision. Whitehorse has made it this way because it fits his agenda. And some of you have fallen into his whitehorse traps. To him, it's about modernizing Sikhi that will look like the Christian religion, with many sects. IF you wish for union of the Panth then follow the great leaders that only put in Sabat Soorat Sikhs in positions that represent Sikhi. A pork eating Muslim can't be a representative of Islam. A cow eating Hindu can't be a representative of Brahmin faith. The Khalsa Panth holds Saint and Soldier in high regards. There is no option of one over the other.

[whyhellothere]

As much as I prefer living in the West, its not perfect by any means. The greatest 'triumph' of the West (if one can refer to it in this manner) is the illusion of democracy and freedom that it provides. Whereas the actual truth is so far from these 'hallowed' ideals its actually quite terrifying. But anyways that's another debate for another day.

Illuminati n freemasons! The evidence against them is utterly overwhelming and they've performed so much black magic it's ridiculous, it's no wonder everyones walking around in a daze. I see their symbols and dark magic everywhere esp in London, satans having a field day up here!

[VanHelsingh]

@ whyhellothere - I've read a lot about them but do they even really exist? I mean honestly. I was referring to the double standards of Western governments and their collusion with the Rupert Murdoch-owned media, although there is a lot of evidence for the existence of the Illuminati, etc. I dunno - it seems a bit far fetched to me. Yet I can't stop reading about these theories!!! :lol:

I sometimes wonder if these groups are aware of the 'Raj Karega Khalsa' prediction (is it a prediction or just a metaphorical statement?). Would they ever let the world reach a state where the Khalsa would have to return and basically take over the Middle East and South East Asia? What would happen then - would we fight with Rome (the Vatican)? So many questions.

[whyhellothere]

@ whyhellothere - I've read a lot about them but do they even really exist? I mean honestly. I was referring to the double standards of Western governments and their collusion with the Rupert Murdoch-owned media, although there is a lot of evidence for the existence of the Illuminati, etc. I dunno - it seems a bit far fetched to me. Yet I can't stop reading about these theories!!! :lol:

I sometimes wonder if these groups are aware of the 'Raj Karega Khalsa' prediction (is it a prediction or just a metaphorical statement?). Would they ever let the world reach a state where the Khalsa would have to return and basically take over the Middle East and South East Asia? What would happen then - would we fight with Rome (the Vatican)? So many questions.

Lol the glory of god is such that nothing can happen without his hukam. If he wants a khalsa army to rise, it will happen, it;s not in the hands of these black magic practicing satan lovers, his shaheeds come to earth and go back to sachkandh as they please and take care of our affairs and gods power is everywhere, if he wants Obama to chop his own head off, it will happen. Sikhi is pretty much protected although close minded people from within are slowly trying to destroy it (It is humanities best path to god, not just for asians and many of the leaders in Akal Takht are corrupt no dount with the influence of Illuminati/freemasons).

Yes they are real, with the grace of god/ naam jaap I see their marks in most places, reading about it is the start, if you read enough the facts will be enough to convince you. I was very sceptical in the beginning but after keeping up with the news, the latest songs, media etc I began to see them very prominently in our society and that upset me alot. Keep reading and after a year or two if you're not convinced, stop! It's not just the Murdochs, there are families and people who are the rulers of this world, where there's wealth there is power and gurbani tells us the kings *powerful people/ leaders) of this age will be butchers and evil.

Every single sikh has the responsibility to look into these words in gurbani and believe them to be true, our Gurus knew everything and those who do not believe their claims that the kings of this age are butchers are not true sikhs, these organisations were around during our gurus times under different names, our gurus knew what the world would descend into and who would help speed up kaljug.

At the same time be discerning with what you read, there are also corrupt top conspiracy theorists attempting to mislead people who see the evil roles these organisation's play so let your intuition and good judgement guide you, ask god to guide you.

[VanHelsingh]

Lol the glory of god is such that nothing can happen without his hukam. If he wants a khalsa army to rise, it will happen, it;s not in the hands of these black magic practicing satan lovers, his shaheeds come to earth and go back to sachkandh as they please and take care of our affairs and gods power is everywhere, if he wants Obama to chop his own head off, it will happen. Sikhi is pretty much protected although close minded people from within are slowly trying to destroy it (It is humanities best path to god, not just for asians and many of the leaders in Akal Takht are corrupt no dount with the influence of Illuminati/freemasons).

Yes they are real, with the grace of god/ naam jaap I see their marks in most places, reading about it is the start, if you read enough the facts will be enough to convince you. I was very sceptical in the beginning but after keeping up with the news, the latest songs, media etc I began to see them very prominently in our society and that upset me alot. Keep reading and after a year or two if you're not convinced, stop! It's not just the Murdochs, there are families and people who are the rulers of this world, where there's wealth there is power and gurbani tells us the kings *powerful people/ leaders) of this age will be butchers and evil.

Every single sikh has the responsibility to look into these words in gurbani and believe them to be true, our Gurus knew everything and those who do not believe their claims that the kings of this age are butchers are not true sikhs, these organisations were around during our gurus times under different names, our gurus knew what the world would descend into and who would help speed up kaljug.

At the same time be discerning with what you read, there are also corrupt top conspiracy theorists attempting to mislead people who see the evil roles these organisation's play so let your intuition and good judgement guide you, ask god to guide you.

I know this is off-topic but I'll say this: I believe Sikhi is the only way to combat these nefarious influences as you've mentioned above. The reach of these dark organisations are terrifying, and yes I also believe that our current leaders have been compromised by these dark forces. As for the solution? Only Waheguru knows.