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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

I was watching the Panth Time Special about Sikh Council UK a couple of weeks ago on Sikh Channel and dont really understand what their core agenda is. They will not involve themselves in Rehat/Gurdwara Maryada issues (however they want Akal Takht to ask them before issuing Hukamnamas) and they fobbed of Ricky Reel's mum and her appeal to help get her son's case re-opened. They want youth to get involved but do not really clarify what this involvement entails.

All I can see is people are congratulating each other for potentially forming this body. Very confused.. :6 ..some clarity please....

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Remember the story "The Emporer's New Clothes".

An Emperor who cares for nothing but his wardrobe hires two weavers who promise him the finest suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or "just hopelessly stupid". The Emperor cannot see the cloth himself, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing unfit for his position or stupid; his ministers do the same. When the swindlers report that the suit is finished, they dress him in mime and the Emperor then marches in procession before his subjects. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all and the cry is taken up by others. The Emperor cringes, suspecting the assertion is true, but holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

I do wonder if this whole self back patting that's being created about this council is nothing more than the story above. So far the same faces seem to keep coming forward telling us how amazing this is but no one is telling us what the SCUK will take on. Will they take on Gurdwara Satkaar issues or are Satkaar issues going to be classified as "bickering" issues as per comments made on the live Panth Time last week??

And before anyone comes back with the answer, "why don't you put yourself forward", please give some clarity on what SCUK will take on in terms of real Panth issues before leading us into believing this is the best thing that has ever happened when nothing has even happened.

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From what I can see the core agenda , that they repeat adnausium but it seems it is not getting through , is that this council is a collective body of all Gurdwaras and jathas, and they are pleading with all gurdwaras and jathas to affiliate. So that when issues that arise on a national level where representation is needed then we as Sikhs can speak with one voice , as opposed to individualgroups falling over each other and making contradictory statements. We have problems with Kirpan, dastaar at airports, problems in schools, uni's etc all these can be dealt with more effectively if we have a national council that represents the whole Uk Sikhs.

They have just started the council, so let them get their bearings first, it will take time to bed and settle in, we seem to expect miracles from the very start and if they don't devliver then we can sit back and chuckle to ourselves with a 'I told you so' smile......... give them a chance.

Gurdwaras will each send representitives so there will be no one Gurdwara or Jatha that will dominate. When 'leaders' are chosen then they can only be chosen from those who have gotten off their back sides and put themsleves forward, if all we can do is type away at how bad and rotten this all is then it is our own fault.

They are asking for young people to come forward, and it seems very few have, so whose fault will it be when we just have a few middle aged men at the front?

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They are asking for young people to come forward, and it seems very few have, so whose fault will it be when we just have a few middle aged men at the front?

Somehow expected that answer. Have any young people come forward who regularly use this forum? Bundha Ji, have you? Any first hand experiences about the panthic "appetite" that is formalising?

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In my opinion this is a recipe for disaster.

These guys know that once they represent the big power house Gurdwaras they will have enough power to manipulate all the way to Akal Thakt.

They have not clarified position on anything.

Beadbi - party halls? nothing!

Mix faith marriages -Nothing (in fact some of these leaders had openly objected against Akal thakt)

Khalistan- Nothing

and when we start getting into nitty gritty, Shri Dasam Granth Ji, Meat, Chairs in langur/darbar, Raagmala, keski, which Sants are kosher, which arnt..

It better they make their stand clear from the outset, so people know what they are signing up for.

I have no faith in some of the people involved. no faith in Davy Bal, whos taking the panth for mugs, by promoting Kanjur lifestyle to our kids on brit asia from a studio funded by sangats money.

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I feel affliation will work better if there was a definition of the type of issues that will be handled by SCUK.It looks as if they are dodging any Sikh issues in the name of setting up. Right now it looks that if you have a panthic/maryada issue then SCUK will not help you and if you have a racial/discrimination case then also SCUK will not help. Both issues I have highlighted are opposites of the Sikh spectrum. Where within this spectrum will SCUK sit? Only asking for clarity.....

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I would still say give them a chance. They cannot hide behind the 'we are setting up' forever. Once the council has been set up and the first meeting held, then for sure we can take them to task on issues.

After six months they cannot still say they are setting up , and we can then take them to task on this.

Just look at all those who filled pages on forums saying that sikh Channel was rubbish and it was all an afront. In my view it has turned out to the the best of the three channels by far.

It least it has the resolve to put up discussion programs on difficult issues, they recently had discussion about party halls etc, do why applaud this ? no.

In the same way give the council a chance, even if there are a few bad apples there are also good apples.

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They have not clarified position on anything.

Beadbi - party halls? nothing!

Mix faith marriages -Nothing (in fact some of these leaders had openly objected against Akal thakt)

Khalistan- Nothing

and when we start getting into nitty gritty, Shri Dasam Granth Ji, Meat, Chairs in langur/darbar, Raagmala, keski, which Sants are kosher, which arnt..

It better they make their stand clear from the outset, so people know what they are signing up for.

Rehat maryada issues are of high importance. If the intentions of SCUK are to be some kind of Sikh "Think Tank" they need to be clear cut on principles and not just formalise anything and then label it Sikh. When volatile community/panthic issues develop in the UK, then Scuk will have to be either commending or condemning. They can't get away with sitting on the fence. It would be useful to understand what level of panthic Scuk expect to be.

We have seen sell outs like BSC drop their "Khalistan" agenda as an when it suits them and for that many of us think they are a waste of space. Scuk have so far given us wish washy lingo with focus solely on membership. On one side members come on Sikh Channel say they promote Akal Takht Maryada and in the same interview they mention that they will not interfere in the maryada issues of Gurdwaras. So what is the point.

In my view, SCUK seem to have formalised to push out the likes of individuals Inderjit Singh, Dr JS Rai, Kashmir Singh, Gurmukh Singh, Harmander Singh as cosy government consultants. Fair enough, good move. But what about dharmic issues, satkaar issues, rehat maryada issues which we expect Scuk to lead. There's no clarity on that.

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As I understand it there are a number of Gurdwara, jathebandis and various other elements which will form the SCUK mini parliament. Their main aim will be to allow Sikhs to finally speak with one voice on the issues that face all Sikhs regardless of their particular community or reht interpretation i.e. Dastaar, Kirpan issues.

Now if they have a mini parliament in place and they hold regular meetings, this also gives them the capability to discuss community issues (raised by you and me) with representatives from all Sikh communities in an open and accountable way. When these issues crop up nowadays there is currently no platform for communication…

So give it a chance, as not creating the council would mean that we stand still in the same old mess.......

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I have to agree with sarabha punjab on this one, i dont know about how long some of the forum members have been around but iv been around long enough to know there are some dodgy characters on this council

With some of their track records i wouldnt be surprised if there are a few hidden agendas under the table

and before anyone slams me for "not giving them a chance" or saying "why dont you do something yourself" just be cautious about these people, they're alot smarter than you think

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Rehat maryada issues are of high importance. If the intentions of SCUK are to be some kind of Sikh "Think Tank" they need to be clear cut on principles and not just formalise anything and then label it Sikh. When volatile community/panthic issues develop in the UK, then Scuk will have to be either commending or condemning. They can't get away with sitting on the fence. It would be useful to understand what level of panthic Scuk expect to be.

We have seen sell outs like BSC drop their "Khalistan" agenda as an when it suits them and for that many of us think they are a waste of space. Scuk have so far given us wish washy lingo with focus solely on membership. On one side members come on Sikh Channel say they promote Akal Takht Maryada and in the same interview they mention that they will not interfere in the maryada issues of Gurdwaras. So what is the point.

In my view, SCUK seem to have formalised to push out the likes of individuals Inderjit Singh, Dr JS Rai, Kashmir Singh, Gurmukh Singh, Harmander Singh as cosy government consultants. Fair enough, good move. But what about dharmic issues, satkaar issues, rehat maryada issues which we expect Scuk to lead. There's no clarity on that.

Do all the names you mentioned have government jobs ?Even if they did how would that be so bad. This is not India ?

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I have to agree with sarabha punjab on this one, i dont know about how long some of the forum members have been around but iv been around long enough to know there are some dodgy characters on this council

With some of their track records i wouldnt be surprised if there are a few hidden agendas under the table

and before anyone slams me for "not giving them a chance" or saying "why dont you do something yourself" just be cautious about these people, they're alot smarter than you think

Could you please expand on the 'dodgy characters' ? Without knowing what these people have done or are capable of doing to damage the Panth, what is the use of making such a statement.

I would honestly like to know.

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and when we start getting into nitty gritty, Shri Dasam Granth Ji, Meat, Chairs in langur/darbar, Raagmala, keski, which Sants are kosher, which arnt..

add "doing kirtan properly" to that list, rather than having uninspiring spiritually dead, disco kirtan in gurdwaras. In fact put it at the top of the list, the others arent as important.

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With all the disparity and mismatch of constitutional issues which are inherent in the governing documents of all the gurudwaras, what I originally assumed SCUK would be was a central body who would bring a unified maryada and guide Gurdwaras in their day to day management

My interpretation now is that I get the feeling that SCUK are aiming towards being a government consultation group. Personally, I struggle to justify another government think tank as we have a number of Sikh consultative groups already in existence such as British Sikh Consultative Forum, British Sikh Federation, Network of Sikh Organisations, Sikhs in England, Sikh Federation UK and United Sikhs. They do possess a level of expertise and experience.

It's hard to see what SCUK in it's raw format want to achieve if it's not getting involved in Gurdwara issues (as people have mentioned on live phone-in programmes). We get monthly watery updates via Sikh Channel discussion shows but I am struggling to see any substance. It only adds to confusion about what SCUK are meant to be. What issues will a "Sikh Parliament" address? There needs to be some clarity. The main gap I see where SCUK should fit is as a central Gurdwara body discouraging anti Sikh activities, encouraging Akal Takht Maryada, promoting Sikh principles whilst supporting the current Sikh think tanks that exist out there.

Before people are accused of not coming forward to join this council perhaps some transparent updates are required, i.e where can we find out how many/which Gurdwaras registered, who the membership panel made off (35 people I believe), who are the key nominated leaders, what panthic core issues will be addressed ? The official website unfortunatly gives little update.

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In my view, SCUK seem to have formalised to push out the likes of individuals Inderjit Singh, Dr JS Rai, Kashmir Singh, Gurmukh Singh, Harmander Singh as cosy government consultants. Fair enough, good move. But what about dharmic issues, satkaar issues, rehat maryada issues which we expect Scuk to lead. There's no clarity on that.

brother did you walk and talk on the day you were born? Yet your parents didnt throw you in the bin, did they?

why? cos they knew that eventually you would walk and talk. And in the same way you growm physically, spiritually, financially, morally etc, so will the SC with the support of the Sikhs. Now please dont be so pessimistic.

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