Unsure

[lionkingdom]

:ph34r: is any 1 out ther....

[Guest gupt]

Thanks for the above info on those pregrames. Well basicaly right now im still kind of in no mans mans land. And still deel like a foreghner and loner in this big city.

I actually am not the best with communciation skills as it is. But I'm finding it very tough here to settle down and fit in. One thing that bothers me. Is that no matter how hard I try I will never truly be accepted in this city as a born and raised Londoner. and this does get to me. I have also struggled to make friends here. Everything is telling me to go back home. But for some reason. London has began to feel like my home even though I have neve really settled here. It doesnt help when for the last 18 months I have had no job. Because I was made redundant.

But on the other hand I guess I just have to do my best. After all I have been here for some time. Its not easy being here when all your freinds and relatives are back up north and being a Sikh alone in this city. I must admit I could have done better. But for a few years I did suffere with depression and didnt mix with people as much as I should have done. Now I find myself alone. with no GF Either.

[Gurukameet]

Hello Stranger

I have been living in East London for nearly 11 years and things have changed alot, I left the midlands to work here, there are so many opportunities to socialise with people, nowadays. When I first moved I lived alone for the first year and did not socialise with anyone, the only place I went to was Bow Gurdwara which is now still burnt down. I still feel it deeply, because Guru JI (Sri Guru Granth Saihib) kindly made me his friend and looked after me while I lived alone. I used to walk from Bow to Newham through grasslands, it was dangerous, but I used to enjoy the walk. I have been living here for 11 years and have managed to make it my home now, having learnt that NO one will be your friend other than Guru Ji (SGGS). Have faith in no one other then Guru JI, there are many opportunities now, far more than what I had, when there was no internet, after leaving the nurses home where I lived, I lived with an old lady, when she went to India for while, after work I used to feel so alone and was actually grateful for listening to mice around the house, it was that bad. But things have changed alot for me I have settled here and am very well respected in the community (I hope) I do take any opportunity to do seva, but only as much as I can now, as I am getting old. Have faith things will change for the better. You came into this world alone and you will leave alone, you take only Nam with you, listen to Singhstah, try and join in Nam Simran at Singh Shabha there are many opportunities to do this in east london, I go to a different Gurdwara in the early hours of the morning to do Nam simran, most will have a session, try one close to you and honestly people are generally very friendly, there.

Another thing that changed my desperation to leave the east end was cycling in Lee Valley, there are many opportunities for you to enjoy the countryside as well. if you cycle try and join the local east london cycle ride.

You will be ok have faith:-)

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for the above info on those pregrames. Well basicaly right now im still kind of in no mans mans land. And still deel like a foreghner and loner in this big city.

I actually am not the best with communciation skills as it is. But I'm finding it very tough here to settle down and fit in. One thing that bothers me. Is that no matter how hard I try I will never truly be accepted in this city as a born and raised Londoner. and this does get to me. I have also struggled to make friends here. Everything is telling me to go back home. But for some reason. London has began to feel like my home even though I have neve really settled here. It doesnt help when for the last 18 months I have had no job. Because I was made redundant.

But on the other hand I guess I just have to do my best. After all I have been here for some time. Its not easy being here when all your freinds and relatives are back up north and being a Sikh alone in this city. I must admit I could have done better. But for a few years I did suffere with depression and didnt mix with people as much as I should have done. Now I find myself alone. with no GF Either.

I think your problem is your communication skills, not your accent. In London there are a huge number of different nationalities, cultures, and plenty of different accents - it is probably the most cosmopolitan place is the world. You sounding like a northerner probably makes no difference - I think you need to work on being more sociable and things will fall into place.

[Guest gupt h]

I moved to London 6 years ago. Its true that in London people are very cliche and refer to everyone out of London as 'from up North' even though I , like you, was from the Midlands which is Central. But in their eyes anything beyond the Watford Junction is North.

I however have managed to fit in. I always speak about where I currently live in central London, my flat, the local places etc. My accent has changed automatically (that was not intentional but I have always been good at picking up accents). When people do find out I am from the Midlands, they are shocked and always say 'wow, your not from London. I would have neve been able to tell'.

I know people might disagree but you need to adapt to the environment you live in. In my opinion you need to work on yourself, practise a london accent in the mirror. It will take time but in a few years you can do it. I personally also found my Midlands accent wasn't that great anyways. Also work on your career, the more successful I am becoming the more friends I have.

Another thing I find is that all Asian chidren born in this country come across as a freshie. (I don't means FOBS) but freshies in the sense as being 1st generation. Lots of asians come across like that and its really off putting to Non-Indians. I only understood this concept 3 years ago but if you understand it, your interaction will change for the better and you will have more personal success.

Here is the analogy. (I am sorry if people get offended with the mention of caste but its the only way for it all to make sense). This analogy is from my Dad who lived in England and went to school here in the 1970's. England was openly racist in the old days and he was a very handsome 6 foot young Sikh boy with light brown eyes. By no standards was my Dad ugly but he used to wear a proper big Jatt style turban. He naturally got bullied and once he wore a very beautiful Yellow Pagg and got called Banana Head. Dad was smart and hardworking and just kept his head down, but his school was racist and when he asked his headteacher about how he could become a Maths teacher she said. 'You can never be a Maths Teacher. People like you have come to our country to work in the factories'.

30 years on, attitudes have not changed much other than things being said behind closed doors rather than open in your face. So my Dad and I were having this conversation about acceptance etc. He then came out with the analogy that 'we are like Bhaiya's'. Now if you understand this analogy everything will make sense and you will know how to act and know how to not overact.

Let me exaplain what I mean by 'we are Bhaiyas'. In India Punjab there are people who come from 'poorer' states to work in Punjab. The Jatt people call them Bhaiya's. Being from a wealthy Jatt family I can completely understand the attitude we have to Non Jatts who are seen as being uglier than us as they are shorter, less built, not fair and have coarser features however the 'Bhaiya's' are definately worse off.

The Bhaiya comes to Punjab and works for the Jatt in his fields etc and generally do all the work. He is short, dark, ugly and he is dressed differently in more cheaper clothes. And then the Bhaiya speaks differently and tells you about all his difficult times etc. On the whole he is just not like you and presents himself as inferior. He is overly polite saying thank you for everything like when you invite him to have food at your house, he works very very hard, and he has little success. As a Jatt you don't accept him as he is inferior in every aspect of his life.

Now the Bhaiya doesn't understand why he is treated like this but generally its not one aspect but his whole package. However once in a while you as a Jatt will meet a Bhaiya who looks like a Bhaiya but dresses', speaks and acts like a Jatt. Its quite amazing when you meet this type of Bhaiya. You know he is a Bhaiya but you tell your mates that he is a just like a Jatt and before you know it, he is your friend. Essentially all the Asians in England are facing a similar situation.

We are the Bhaiya's in England who came from our 'poor' state. No matter how much this hurts everyone but we are seen as Bhaiya's and they think we are ugly with our turbans, dark skin, coarser features etc. However we make things worse by acting like a Bhaiya as well ie the Indians who walk around saying thank you to everything or those who keep saying innit man, dressing in trackies, 'hanging' out in our gangs listening to music and essentially being a bhaiya.

Now you can extend this analogy further which my Dad and I tried to do. So say I am the Jatt who has been living in England all his life and then I see these dark bearded Bhaiya's coming over. I don't want them to come, they speak differently eat their weird food with their hands and are ugly. But I accept them to be workers in factories. Then some of them work hard and get good jobs. It annoys me when my Jatt children are being displaced out of their jobs by them. The camp in the Jatts then divides - those who support the Bhaiya and those who do not. Those who support the Bhaiya will support him more if he only looks like a Bhaiya but acts like a Jatt.

Inevitable the Bhaiya tribe splits too- There are Bhaiyas who call their children Jatt names and forget all their Bhaiya culture. You might think this is a good idea but as a Jatt meeting a Bhaiya who has given his children a Jatt name is more annoying than meeting a Bhaiya who has kept his culture. Instantly you don't like those 'fake' Bhaiya's. But the Bhaiya who has his bhaiya beard and name but acts like a Jatt is accepted.

So essentially we can keep our culture, there is no need to be coconut like some Bhaiyas but we need to act like a Jatt and then share our culture in a positive way when the timing is right ie when you are in a position of success. No one will listen to the Bhaiya culture if the Bhaiya works in a factory but once you have the Jatt successful lifestyle, they will listen to you.

You can also extend this further. Basically has anyone noticed how some of the most ugly looking indians get called pretty by Non-Indians. I for one never understood why until the Bhaiya analogy. Basically we are all seen as ugly and then the one who is better dressed or wearing makeup is accepted as being pretty. The acceptance is not based on facial features but on physical physique (slim/tall/built) and clothes. Things such as an ugly face or having a beard don't matter because white people will see a comment like that as being 'racist' but its not racist to not like someone for having an accent etc. So this means White people don't know who is actually pretty in our race and instead will go for the slim , better dressed and better accent speaking person and ironically the pretty face is no longer pretty. This has its advantages and disadvantages. The main advantage being that the most ugly looking sikh can be accepted as long as they go to the gym and dress in good clothes and appear to the equivalent of the white jatt by speaking properly. But the disadvantage is that its not the truth and you can be pretty, be hard working.

You also have to remember its the white-Jatt impression you are trying to create. There are other white types like the chavs, the working class etc and you don't want to create that impression because as a Jatt we definately make fun of other native tribes in Punjab for their job, food, etc. So don't be chavvy. Try to speak in the proper English accent and be confident but understand what first impressions people think when they see you. As a Jatt if I saw a Bhaiya I would think Bhaiya and then he would confirm it by saying he works in a factory and had a tough like. But if I see a Bhaiya and think Bhaiya and find out he is a Banker, works in a top company, has a posh inner city flat, I started thinking he is not a Bhaiya. So please understand the impression you need to create.

I hope the BHaiya and Jatt analogy helps people to understand the situation, it definately helped me to understand why people get treated a certain way, why it makes sense to the people treating them in that way and how you should behave to avoid gettign hurt. Importantly do not to act it as its annoying to have a bhiaya having a white name. For instance my white friend was so annoyed that Asian girls were dying their hair blonde. She instantly hated every asian girl with contacts and blonde hair. I thought this was interesting as in the asian tribe those girls wear respected, but I guess in the Bhaiya tribe the Bhaiya over doing it might be respected but that doesn't mean its the right thing.

What you want to do is be honest, you want to look like a Sikh, do your prayers etc but talk posh, dress posh and have a good education and speak in a way which shows you are intelligent and have a good understanding. Dont be insecure and don't be overly polite eg people saying thank you all the time.

You essentially want to sound like the Jatt whilst still looking like a Bhaiya. You don't want to be a Bhaiya and have no Bhaiya name and no Bhaiya culture. This is wrong as you come across as the Bhaiya trying to be a Jatt. Don't try to be something, become something. I understand this analogy probably makes alot more sense to me since I have experienced the whole Jatt and Bhaiya culture. And I have seen the Bhaiya trying to be Jatt thing rather than being a Jatt. But hopefully this helps people in some way.

Essentially you need to work hard to get good exam grades and then get a good job. With that comes wealth etc and only then will people accept and listen to you. I never had any friends at school because I was a proper Bhaiya who bought roti to school and wore my proper Bhaiya Indian clothes, not even the Indians spoke to me as they thought I was a freshie. I got good grades, good job, good income, moved to London, good flat, wealth etc and have lots of friends who ironically are not Indians but upper class white people who respect me for having my hair but also being like them. Thats because I speak proper english speech, have real interests in things like horse riding, classical music. (I have never liked Hip Hop or Lady Gaga - something they also don't like). So its all about being you but being aware of the impression.

This doesn't mean its easy - I know some white people who are hostile as they see me as a Bhaiya in their circle. However because I understand the BHaiya analogy I know when I meet these people the first thing I am not going to do is speak about Bhaiya topics like keertan, seva, being Indian. Instead I will talk about things such as current affairs, latest concert, finance and once you have broken the ice and they know you as a person you can share culture and who you are afterwards.

After reading your situation I think you are like me. You just need to be aware of impression, adapt accent appropriately such but don't be fake and above all no mattter what happens work very very very hard and get a good job.