Sikhs In The British Military

[$ingh $oorma]

I can't see how any intelligent Sikh can overlook what an army (they might be considering joining) engages in?

If they routinely get involved in unethical wars of aggression for resource control, it is right that conscious Sikhs question this and even objects to it. How can a Sikh divorce himself from the morality involved?

No war is moral... NONE!! You mentioned aforehand the concept of "my" people or "our" war etc... If ninth guru was a sikh, why did he get involved in hindus matter? if our gurus were sikhs why did we fight for others? Whay did our many singhs died fighting for others? To be sikh is to be humble.... and personally my service in US Army made me a much better sikh... army taught and enforced the things that i grewup learning about sikhi (LDRSHIP - a google search would suffice) and of many is "selfless service"

[dalsingh101]

You are here for the "protections" this nation provides to you... least you can do is take part... don't forget your own (sikh) history

Don't go twisting my history because you've gone and bitten off more than you can chew fighting Muslims. I know my history, including that with the British.

I get the feeling you are desperate for help because you are struggling to fight your own battles these days?

Keep your 'protections' too. I'll take my chances looking after myself. If British people hadn't invaded Panjab and then given half away to Muslims on leaving, we'd have probably been quite happy there.

Really, the Brits problems started when they followed Tony 'Pied Piper' Blair's foolish plan to latch onto America. There was no need to invade Iraq.

Whatever faults Islam has, can anyone really deny the historical impact British and American foreign policies have had with training, arming and then giving a cause to jihadis?

Your people made this bed, now you have to lay in it.

No war is moral... NONE!! You mentioned aforehand the concept of "my" people or "our" war etc... If ninth guru was a sikh, why did he get involved in hindus matter? if our gurus were sikhs why did we fight for others? Whay did our many singhs died fighting for others? To be sikh is to be humble.... and personally my service in US Army made me a much better sikh... army taught and enforced the things that i grewup learning about sikhi (LDRSHIP - a google search would suffice) and of many is "selfless service"

They choose the wars carefully, they didn't naively jump into them without considering the greater moral cause/implications.

[Temporary]

Don't go twisting my history because you've gone and bitten off more than you can chew fighting Muslims. I know my history, including that with the British.

I get the feeling you are desperate for help because you are struggling to fight your own battles these days?

Keep your 'protections' too. I'll take my chances looking after myself. If British people hadn't invaded Panjab and then given half away to Muslims on leaving, we'd have probably been quite happy there.

Really, the Brits problems started when they followed Tony 'Pied Piper' Blair's foolish plan to latch onto America. There was no need to invade Iraq.

Whatever faults Islam has, can anyone really deny the historical impact British and American foreign policies have had with training, arming and then giving a cause to jihadis?

Your people made this bed, now you have to lay in it.

Lest get this clear, I am not a Gora but a proud American/British sikh (yes, i hold both nationalities)... And yes, we are fighting ourselves... Both countries have a "voluntary" service and no one is forced to join... I don't see you on the front lines... As per protections.. you are afforded full public service and trust me you utilize it and if you are so sure about yourself, thn why not renounce being a brit or whatever citizen you may hold... and move back to punjab (I love punjab, nothing wrong with it... i spent 8yrs of life there in pind).

[Temporary]

They choose the wars carefully, they didn't naively jump into them without considering the greater moral cause/implications.

And if you "THINK" about it you wouldn't have a war, hence the idea of "diplomacy"...

"To wage a war for a purely moral reason is as absurd as to ravish a woman for a purely moral reason" and again no war is a moral war.. "We make war so that we may have peace" Not to mention your "avatar" is a war scene...

[dalsingh101]

Contrary to what you are saying, me living in Britain or anywhere else in the globe, doesn't automatically mean I have to start supporting or agreeing with foolhardy military adventurism by the government in power.

You want to play soldier for white man's cause or oil based economics, knock yourself out mate. But please don't be surprised if some of us don't find what you are doing as 'noble' as you might.

Truth is, whether they are right or wrong, you have to follow orders. Personally, I'm not that sort of guy. I don't naievely trust authority like some people seem to do.

What happens tomorrow when another twisted leader starts another conflict based on bull like WMDs or a hypothetical desire to control oil resources? Will you swallow up your conscience and go ahead and kill people defending their own land against invasion like a lemming? See where I'm going with this.....

Anyway, good luck with your recruitment drive.

Not to mention your "avatar" is a war scene...

My avtaar is a Sikh warrior defending his nation against invading imperialist Brits. That seems to be lost on you. Think about it.

You're probably being a modern day version of the type he is fighting against.

[Temporary]

Contrary to what you are saying, me living in Britain or anywhere else in the globe, doesn't automatically mean I have to start supporting or agreeing with foolhardy military adventurism by the government in power.

You want to play soldier for white man's cause or oil based economics, knock yourself out mate. But please don't be surprised if some of us don't find what you are doing as 'noble' as you might.

Truth is, whether they are right or wrong, you have to follow orders. Personally, I'm not that sort of guy. I don't naievely trust authority like some people seem to do.

What happens tomorrow when another twisted leader starts another conflict based on bull like WMDs or a hypothetical desire to control oil resources? Will you swallow up your conscience and go ahead and kill people defending their own land against invasion like a lemming? See where I'm going with this.....

Anyway, good luck with your recruitment drive.

Without order and discipline you can't have an army... Even guruji's army had order and discipline and followed and obeyed whatever came from up... Personally i believe that every sikh is a soldier, a good sikh stands up for those oppressed... you mention those wars were wrong... many of those not deployed say that... as someone who was... Having served in socom and having in touch with one on one basis with locals in both countires i realized how greatful the locals were for us being there... now their current govt is another story... When you see ppl run upto you and thank you and elders tell you that how they can move about freely, and how girls can go to school without fear, and how they can go to college without getting acid attacked or shot in head point blank... Evenmore i ran into a group of sikhs in kandhar and was greatful to help them move to pakistan from treachery on hands of taliban...

It is how you see it... those who saw it firsthand think differently... some words said go through your heart nd words like those were said to me when i was deployed... things i saw, i wish i could go back again with a might to liberate those who i was not able to help...

I will end this arguement with "Manas Ki Jaat Sabhai Akai Pehchanbau" and a war began with unjust views fought for just... in my eyes is a just war!

Gur Fateh! and if you still like to discuss more please PM me, i don't like "ruining" or "hijacking" posts with "my" own views...

[Wales85]

Well said After serving Active duty in both wars and having army pay for harvard tution and much more... only good things came out for me... I always recommend it to those capable, instead of being a burden in US on ed.gov, how about we capable hand earn it... It can help you go to grad school/law/med etc and even bump you up for a govt job

Rest is between you, your family... are you willing to do hard work, wake up early, and put your life on the line for your nation??

You sir, sound like an amazing pimp. Harvard and ex-military... you can write your own ticket. You certainly sound like you have done enough you don't need to worry about winning silly arguments on the internet. No matter what anyone does, there are always people who will find fault with it.

Thank you for your service, and best regards.

-W

[Temporary]

You sir, sound like an amazing pimp. Harvard and ex-military... you can write your own ticket. You certainly sound like you have done enough you don't need to worry about winning silly arguments on the internet. No matter what anyone does, there are always people who will find fault with it.

Thank you for your service, and best regards.

-W

It's not about arguments... It's the fact that youth come on here and read and i don't want them to just get one side LoL...

[Singh559]

HSBain's reaction while reading the replies:

[dalsingh101]

and if you still like to discuss more please PM me, i don't like "ruining" or "hijacking" posts with "my" own views...

Look you aren't ruining the thread. Discussions like ours are important. It's important to be open with them to, so brothers and sisters can use their brains and draw their own conclusions after carefully evaluating the points we cover.

Without order and discipline you can't have an army... Even guruji's army had order and discipline and followed and obeyed whatever came from up...

There is BIG difference between someone like say George Bush (or a crony) being at the appex of military structure, compared to someone like Guru Gobind Singh ji who dedicated his life to righteousness and leading by personal example. A man who sacrificed his own children before expecting others to sacrifice theirs. Who personally fought in wars he instigated.

Guru ji gave the Khalsa a moral mandate from top down. That simply isn't true for modern day nations like yours where corporate or economic interests really lie at the heart of the decisions being made despite being 'dressed up' in propaganda. You could trust guru ji's orders. You can't trust modern government like that! They pander to all sorts of interests.

Personally i believe that every sikh is a soldier, a good sikh stands up for those oppressed... you mention those wars were wrong... many of those not deployed say that... as someone who was.. Having served in socom and having in touch with one on one basis with locals in both countires i realized how greatful the locals were for us being there...

What about the patriots who object to foreign interference and fight. Not necessarily Taliban/Islamist motivated fighters, but others who may have had family killed, or just object to being invaded. They are locals too. Just to hightlight those who may be supportive to your side isn't seeing the true whole picture.

now their current govt is another story... When you see ppl run upto you and thank you and elders tell you that how they can move about freely, and how girls can go to school without fear, and how they can go to college without getting acid attacked or shot in head point blank...

This stuff still goes on my friend. Besides, where does this moral policing of the world end? America has it's own issues with racism, poor people having inadequate medical care, poor education system etc. Why not fix them before you try and save the rest of the world?

Evenmore i ran into a group of sikhs in kandhar and was greatful to help them move to pakistan from treachery on hands of taliban...

Let's not mince words here. Those Talibans are the direct offshoot of American trained and armed anti soviet fighters. Your own nation actually helped create this problem. And that's the whole issue. Interfering in places and creating problems, despite good intentions (or otherwise).

It is how you see it... those who saw it firsthand think differently... some words said go through your heart nd words like those were said to me when i was deployed... things i saw, i wish i could go back again with a might to liberate those who i was not able to help...

Look at Iraq. It's even more unstable then when Saddam was around. How many people have lost their lives needlessly there? Not just fighters, but women, children and civilians. Is this just acceptable collateral damage? America is making dumb moves.

I will end this arguement with "Manas Ki Jaat Sabhai Akai Pehchanbau" and a war began with unjust views fought for just... in my eyes is a just war!

Sorry bro. I can't help but think you are really simplifying and romanticising what is going on to an extreme. I don't doubt you may well have truly noble intentions in your own heart. But the effects of the actions of, and true objectives of the powers behind that machine you are a part of are dubious. Despite what their propaganda machine tells you.

I'll tell you another thing from England. These poorly thought out and unethical western 'moves' have done more to help Islamist fundamentalism grow both here and globally, than any amount of preaching by mullahs could. The whole approach is self defeating.

Gur Fateh!

Gur Fateh, stay safe and out of trouble!!