Caste Wars - Ego-Sikhs Are An Easy Target Because Many Still Are Backwards And Think They Are Born Better?

[gurdssingh]

Also another thing I would like to add. Show me the even the most full fledged Amritdhari Sikh(s) and look at their family tree, and it will certainly be all marriage unions among people of the same "background"....

Even our guru jis married, all relations / offspring into khatri / kshatriya communities. Im not trying to cause an argument but just telling fact.

[Only five]

Most Sikhs (mainly Jatts) have sown their own seeds and let's see what the outcome will be. The refusal to knowledge the issue with complex technical arguments and spurious history lessons whilst knowingly ignoring the state of things today is bordering on delusional.

The killing of Sant Rammand was a big mistake, tensions were already building up but that incident was the catalyst,

Later on in the post you say, that you understand what Rammand did was not right. But you don't understand because your post is actual encourage the actions of chamar after he was killed. You're challenging the Jatts and whoever you refer to as the extreme Sikhs. Sikhs have nothing against chamars, but if they want to put their authority on Sikhi, then they can face their destiny as other groups tried oppressing Sikhs. Also if you understood what Rammand did wrong, then you would not put Sant infront of his name because he did beadbi of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. You can refer to him as Sant, your father, even God, but his actions show that he was a Guru ka nindak.

Chamars now have the confidence and won't be hushed, the week of rioting proved that, didn't hear of many Jatts or extreme Sikhs come out to face them.

So the attack on innocent people is your way of achieving justice. Chamars showed the true low caste status they have been given. Attacking people that are living their lives and have nothing to do with the killing of Rammand is a cowardly act.

Look, I'm not saying what Ramanand did was right, but the attitude that the Chammer leaders can be just eliminated and no consequences suffered are a thing of the past.

You do not understand what Ramanand did was completely wrong. If the Chamar leaders want to disrespect Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, then they will pay the price. Also if they refer to people like Ramanand as their leaders, then they are setting themselves up as to enter into dangerous grounds where they will eliminate themselves. Yes the issue was not so black and white, but their disrespect did not go unanswered.

The Chammars now want to go their own way, again certain Sikhs are unhappy with this saying they can't use the Bani of Ravidass, but the fact is they have done it already done it, what has anyone done about it? nothing because they know to pick a fight with Chammars is not to be taken lightly.

Again you are in support of and encourage the beadbi of Gurbani. This shows you are against the Khalsa Panth and your for the attacks on innocent people. Actually you are even provoking people to go attack the chamars. That won't happen. But those that have done the beadbi are given their due respect.

Chammars rightly feel that they are not accepted fully within Sikhi and still get a hard time when they want to leave, is it not time we just gave them a break?

They can leave when they like, but the beadbi of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji would not be accepted. Bhagat Ravidas ji Maharaj would have been completely disgusted at the chamars actions. So

Take your head out of the sand, smell the coffee, things are changing rapidly and it looks like it's going to end badly. I really really hope that things are not whipped up in the west because Punjab will pay the price, we'll all be safe behind our keyboards, so called superior tribes/castes throwing their weight around isn't going to be such a fun sport anymore, get used to it.

Your post are very contradictory. First you provoke people with your post and then say no one in the west should say anything to provoke the chamars? Which planet do you live on? Take your hate speech somewhere else. It won't be accepted here.

[Only five]

from 118 please refer to the index last link.

http://www.sridasam....tion=Page&p=118

http://www.searchgur...granth/page/118

http://www.sikhiwiki...tar_Natak_index

First stop being selective to what you answer. Again does the pendu mentality exist in the west? Also answer the other questions I asked you. If you want to have this discussion in a respectful manner, then don't act like a politcian ans skip over questions you don't want to answer.

The Bani, says that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is from the bedi clan/caste. So intrepret for us what this means? First tell us what Bachittar Natak tells us as a whole and why it was written? Simply saying Guru Sahib wrote Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj was from the bedi caste/clan does not amount to anything.

[dalsingh101]

Tie this issue with the related subject of a potential Khalistan, and one would hope that the number 1 priority of any Khalistani administration would be to completely eliminate caste issues.

Unless Sikhs got serious about eliminating the problem, it will continue to be perpetuated forever. How they'd enforce such laws would be up-for-debate: fines, prison, etc?

This is what puts a lot of nonJatts off the idea of Khalistan. Talk to some of them, they will openly say it. They simply don't believe Jatts are serious about implementing and enforcing egalitarian principles. In a nation where they will be an unchallenged majority you'd get probably get even worse kartootan then we see now.

It would turn the nation into an embarrassment. I believe it's not unrelated to why Waheguru hasn't blessed us with a homestate yet. We've got a lot to learn as a quom.

[VanHelsingh]

This is what puts a lot of nonJatts off the idea of Khalistan. Talk to some of them, they will openly say it. They simply don't believe Jatts are serious about implementing and enforcing egalitarian principles. In a nation where they will be an unchallenged majority you'd get probably get even worse kartootan then we see now.

It would turn thee nation into an embarrassment. I believe it's not unrelated to why Waheguru hasn't blessed us with a homestate yet. We've got a lot to learn as a quom.

I suppose we (as Sikhs) probably won't be around to see the day we have our own nation, but we can only hope that those who do gain freedom will be more attuned to what our Guru Ji's wanted, rather than the embarrassing rabble we have at the moment. It's not impossible but it'll take something monumentally drastic to alter people's ways of thinking.

[dashmesh1984]

i respect all castes but is it okay if your proud of your caste?

these chamars on youtube are talking a lot of crap about Sikhism/jatt/khalistan they are especially targeting bhindranwale in their videos.

[dalsingh101]

but is it okay if your proud of your caste?

It's this very thing that has caused all these problems in my opinion. This leads to the slippery ego slope pretty quickly.

[gurdssingh]

i respect all castes but is it okay if your proud of your caste?

I think its wrong to be proud of your caste in the instance of thinking your better. But you should be able to acknowledge your background.

[dalsingh101]

I think its wrong to be proud of your caste in the instance of thinking your better. But you should be able to acknowledge your background.

Problem with certain caste/ethnic identities (whatever people are calling it these days) is that they seem to be inextricably tied to notions of "thinking you are better".

[Indysinghj]

As Sikhs why are following castes. We never seem to stop blaming each other when we have a bigger problem. Their are bigger organisations out there that want this and are trying everything possible to break us sikhs.

I do believe us sikhs have discriminated lower castes but i'm sure you all know that CHAMAR have contributed to sikhism and protecting it from its enemies.

Shaheed Beant Singh Khalsa who took revenge on the 1984 attack on The Golden Temple, he was a chamar sikh.

Giani Ditt Singh Khalsa who is the famous scholar and author of Sikh Literature and his contribution to the Khalsa Panth & Singh Sabha Movement, he also is a chamar sikh.

Bhai Sangat Singh Ji who played a major role in the battle of chamkaur and was blessed with shaheedi and Guru Gobind Singh blessed him with his dress, his appearance almost was of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, he was a chamar sikh.

Bhai Madan Singh Ji & Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji along side with Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the battle of Chamkaur, they were chamar sikh.

Bhai Jai Singh Khalkat the great martyr of sikhism who approximately 255 years ago was skinned alive refusing to compromise his sikh religion.

Bhai Jaita Singh Ji who brought Guru Tegh Bahadhur Ji's severed head from delhi at great risk. a chamar sikh.

many more to name but why dont people understand the facts and truth about chamar sikh before they criticise them.

The problem is why doesn't SGPC like to tell the sikh people the truth and talk about these protectors of sikhi, these important vital contributors to sikhi, they deserve a major place in sikhism and respect. Is it because they are chamar sikh. Im proud to be a chamar sikh.

Please don't compare us or relate us to sant balle wale followers, you cant put us all in the same group, the same way you cant put other sikh communities who try to be different or separate

Plus many more to name who have played a vital part in sikhi, does