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Caste Wars - Ego-Sikhs Are An Easy Target Because Many Still Are Backwards And Think They Are Born Better?


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these are the same people who complain when they are called a 'chamar' yet they sing about it themselves ...clowns

I think they'd argue that they're reclaiming the term, much like black people would have us believe with n*****.

By using the word 'chamaar' in a "positive" sense, they're disassociating the term with the negative connotations that have long been attached to the word.

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Can you explain why the Dalit can't use the jatt door to get milk? And if they try, then there heads get bashed in. Or even why there is two sides that separate two 'clans'?

Most Sikhs (mainly Jatts) have sown their own seeds and let's see what the outcome will be. The refusal to knowledge the issue with complex technical arguments and spurious history lessons whilst know

from 118 please refer to the index last link. http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=118 http://www.searchgurbani.com/dasam_granth/page/118 http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bachitar_Nat

Ever since i have been a kid, whenever i have read anything about Sikhi whether it be a book as a child or a more academic write up of today.

You always come across the view that the Gurus abolished the caste system when reading up or talking with Sikhs. My question is Did the Gurus really abolish the caste system or judging by the state of todays Sikhs they didn't do a really good job of it. What i find strange is we like to promote Sikhism as like an "anti- cast" society to the wider world, but for the most part have some what of an apathy to dealing with the issue, blaming another caste for the problem is not going to help the cause, thats for sure.

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Ever since i have been a kid, whenever i have read anything about Sikhi whether it be a book as a child or a more academic write up of today.

You always come across the view that the Gurus abolished the caste system when reading up or talking with Sikhs. My question is Did the Gurus really abolish the caste system or judging by the state of todays Sikhs they didn't do a really good job of it. What i find strange is we like to promote Sikhism as like an "anti- cast" society to the wider world, but for the most part have some what of an apathy to dealing with the issue, blaming another caste for the problem is not going to help the cause, thats for sure.

The Gurus did an excellent job where they set up all the practices that made the caste system disappear from the Khalsa Panth. It was only later, after Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj that punjabis started to get relaxed on practicing Sikhi and went back to the caste system. The same people today claim to be Sikh while they have an alcohol drink in their hands. The Khalsa was strong and when it came to the weak people, they were left to do whatever they wanted. Today people have distorted the Khalsa Panth and change it to fit their lifestyle. Sitt among true Singhs and you will see if the caste system exist in the Khalsa Panth. These true Singhs are the Khalsa Panth and no one else. Rest of them are Hindus (slaves of the dirt Brahmins spit on).

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Can you explain why the Dalit can't use the jatt door to get milk? And if they try, then there heads get bashed in. Or even why there is two sides that separate two 'clans'?

Uneducated pendu mentality.. plain and simple. We should all be proud of our ethnic identity, and respect each other as equals.

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Also another thing I would like to add. Show me the even the most full fledged Amritdhari Sikh(s) and look at their family tree, and it will certainly be all marriage unions among people of the same "background"...you will come to realize that this is so deep rooted that it's practically impossible to uproot. We need to debahminize it, that is the only solution. Yet you lokh are still referring to it as "caste" even after my initial post. You who refer to it as caste are are part of the problem and clearly not part of the solution.

Furthermore refer to Dasam Granth bani of our 10th guru where he talks about his Bedi clan and the origins of his tribe. Guru ji was clearly capable to distinguish the difference between caste and ethnic tribe that many of you people are having such a hard time to grasp.

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Yet you lokh are still referring to it as "caste" even after my initial post. You who refer to it as caste are are part of the problem and clearly not part of the solution.

To me what you are doing is just trying to find another 'technical' escape clause to keep up with this divisive hierarchical mentality in the panth. Calling it caste, ethnicity, apples, tribe (or whatever else is fashionable these days), doesn't detract from the fact that there is strong obnoxious streak of supremacist, hate driven ideology behind the people who like to consider themselves a superior breed of - or a higher caste of - Sikh. That's what Jatt culture has turned into today. Maybe it wasn't always like that? But it certainly is now.

If the thing HAS turned into an ugly monster that is causing a lot of problems in Sikh society, are you really that surprised people loathe it and are positioning themselves against it? What you're seeing in the video is simply a reaction to this ideology/mentality. Plain and simple.

If you want to solve it, look at the root causes, not what happens because of them. Truth is Jatt society needs to serious reflect on itself critically and avoid the usual insular, egocentric, self-congratulatory thing.

Look at our scriptures/literature from way back. It contains many references to how our Gurus merged the four castes into one.

Truth is too many Jatts seem to be total denial of how they have played the biggest hand in this current caste mess in Sikhi. Sorry, but it's the truth. I've said before, I don't doubt some long standing (i.e. preSikh) pendu level animosity plays a big part in the appalling relationship between jats and chamaars. Certain people need to get their heads out of their medieval, villager, feudal mindsets and wake up to the 21st century.

We really do need change not more of the same old excuses and detraction from predictable sources.

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One thing that is clear is this battle of clans/caste, whatever you want to call it. That Jatts just didn't create this division. Other caste also played their part by saying we are more educated than the jatt farmers. They still have that snobby look on there face and believe they are the educated ones. So no one can blame one clan for all of it.

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Yeah its pendu behavior. But does this pendu mentality exist in the west (in the so called educated people)? Knowing your origin and being proud of it is two different things and being proud of it is very much caste behavior. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj gave the Sikhs a new ethnic identity. The Khalsa is a culture, language, and a religion that does not discriminate against anyone. Can you say the jatts don't discriminate against anyone? Plus can you claim to be jatt and Sikh?

Provide the ang so the Bani can be looked at by everyone.

from 118 please refer to the index last link.

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=118

http://www.searchgurbani.com/dasam_granth/page/118

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bachitar_Natak_index

To me what you are doing is just trying to find another 'technical' escape clause to keep up with this divisive hierarchical mentality in the panth. Calling it caste, ethnicity, apples, tribe (or whatever else is fashionable these days), doesn't detract from the fact that there is strong obnoxious streak of supremacist, hate driven ideology behind the people who like to consider themselves a superior breed of - or a higher caste of - Sikh. That's what Jatt culture has turned into today. Maybe it wasn't always like that? But it certainly is now.

If the thing HAS turned into an ugly monster that is causing a lot of problems in Sikh society, are you really that surprised people loathe it and are positioning themselves against it? What you're seeing in the video is simply a reaction to this ideology/mentality. Plain and simple.

If you want to solve it, look at the root causes, not what happens because of them. Truth is Jatt society needs to serious reflect on itself critically and avoid the usual insular, egocentric, self-congratulatory thing.

Look at our scriptures/literature from way back. It contains many references to how our Gurus merged the four castes into one.

Truth is too many Jatts seem to be total denial of how they have played the biggest hand in this current caste mess in Sikhi. Sorry, but it's the truth. I've said before, I don't doubt some long standing (i.e. preSikh) pendu level animosity plays a big part in the appalling relationship between jats and chamaars. Certain people need to get their heads out of their medieval, villager, feudal mindsets and wake up to the 21st century.

We really do need change not more of the same old excuses and detraction from predictable sources.

I agree there are ugly undertones that need to be dealt with.. but it certainly isn't a "technical escape" as you put it.

DYNASTY and CLAN do not denote CASTE. According to the WEBSTER’S NEW WORLD DICTONAY, the meaning of these three words are as under –

CASTE Any of the hereditary classes of a segregated System, based on birth, wealth, trade, status in both religious and social set up of Hindus.

DYNASTY A succession of rulers, who are members of the same family.

CLAN A group of families claiming descent, from a common ancestor.

MOST IMPORTANT TO NOTE -

Kshatriyya is the warrior and the ruling caste of Hindus. Suraj Bunse or Raghubunse is Dynasty, to which Rajas Raghu, Aj, Dasrath, Sri Ram Chander, Luv, Kush and their descendents belonged. Baidis and Sodhis are the clans of the Raghubunse Dynasty, NOT CASTES.

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And my apologies for my error in my earlier post. Guru Gobind Singh Ji belonged to the Sodhi clan not Bedi, which was origin of Guru Nanak Ji.

Now try seeing the complete picture. What Guru Gobind Singh did AFTER he wrote that. When he created the Khalsa. Did he push for the preservations of individual caste/clan/ethnicity based identities in this or did he push for something new?

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Tie this issue with the related subject of a potential Khalistan, and one would hope that the number 1 priority of any Khalistani administration would be to completely eliminate caste issues.

Unless Sikhs got serious about eliminating the problem, it will continue to be perpetuated forever. How they'd enforce such laws would be up-for-debate: fines, prison, etc?

Also, Amritdhari Sikhs would need to begin marrying their offspring to other Amrtidhari Sikhs who aren't of their caste. This shouldn't even be an issue if I'm being honest and this should already be happening. If they themselves would begin to resist this process, then that's shameful. I doubt true Singhs would have a problem with it. They would want to stay true to every law laid down by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji for his Khalsa.

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My what strange 'sikhs' most here are :o

Do you not remember how, a little over a year ago, when the chamars had a march through central London supposedly demanding anti-caste discrimination laws in the UK ? That was what the march was supposed to be about but anyone who saw that march will tell you that over 90% of the placards the chamars carried were where they were demanding the government ban 'offensive sikh weapons'...i.e the kirpan. Are you people in the habit of supporting the very people who want to finish you ? If you hate yourselves that much why not cut out the middle man and just kill yourselves ?

Do you not remember all these new chamar music videos in which they sing proudly of the fact that it is an insult for people to call them 'sikhs'.....how they are NOT sikhs.....do not want to be sikhs ?

Are you people in the habit of supporting the very people who want to finish you ? If you hate yourselves that much why not cut out the middle man and do yourselves in ?

Its no wonder Bollywood and the Indian media portray us as stupid. I've seen nothing on this forum that would suggest otherwise.

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