Eye Witness Account Of Vaisakhi - 1699

[dalsingh101]

Jassa Ji, you don't want us to spread rumours about Guru Sahib Ji but you are quite happy with the notion that Guru Ji basically tricked the khalsa panth. You are suggesting that on the most important day of the Khalsa Guru Ji tricked the sangat by making out that Guru Ji had beheaded Bhai Dhaya singh Ji but infact Bhai Dhaya Singh Ji was actually sitting in the tent having a quite cup of tea.......... is this not beadbi ?

What is true is true. Did Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji not save Makhan Shah when his ship floundered? Did Guru Ji not show his shoulder with bruises where Guru Ji physically saved Makhan shahs ship?

Why does Sikhi not expand and flourish? ....Because our own sikhs do not even believe in it, how can we convince others when our own disown our Guru Jis feats?

This isn't about what you mention, I think the central issue here is Sikhs accepting 'historical' accounts without making proper inquiries into their sources and evaluating them.

There are real dangers in failing to apply discernment to such things as humans are naturally prone to accept that which supports beliefs they already hold, and reject that which goes counter to this. People often get demoralised and lose faith when they encounter what are perceived to be strong challenges to accepted narratives, upon which they rested their belief.

In the end, I have no issue with the potential for miracles, but I do find the use of narratives with no solid provenance to support such things as problematic. That no one has ever produced the purported manuscript that the account in question is based upon isn't something that can be ignored.

Highlighting this isn't wrong. It's just talking the plain truth (sat).

Instead of arguing about it bitterly, people should contact the uni and conclusively put the matter to rest. Otherwise we'll go down that familiar merry-go-round of bitter finger pointing and recriminations amongst each other.

[Only five]

Sikh history as a whole has not been written down as it happened. When a person hears that Satguru did a simple thing like took up swords (which they like about life and would do themselves), then they will accept it in a flash because it fits there manmat way of thinking. Also they will die finghting to say Satguru hunted and ate meat. But when it comes to accepting something outside of their thinking then they need historical accounts and will doubt it completely.

Speak to any Gursikh that knows Guru Sahib and they will say what Guru Sahib says is what he does. If people are doubting already what Satguru said in the form of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, then they will never in their life be able to follow Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Don't we read in Gurbani, what Satguru says is what Satguru does? The Truth is people that put doubts in others minds are either very ignornat of Sikhi or their purpose is to put doubts in people.

Where is the histoical eye witness account that Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is the Guru, where is the historical account of Satguru Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj sat on a hot plate and never cried, where is the historical eye witness account that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj stopped a rock with his bare hand.

People will always put doubts in others minds to satisfy their own mind. Don't listen to a word. If you want to have proof of the heads being cut of the Punj Pyare then trust in Satguru human form and Satguru written form (Gurbani) and all the answers are there

Satguru never performed any miracles or put on a show for anyone. Only some continue to call it a miracle to confuse and put doubts in others minds. In one mouth they call Satguru is Sri Waheguru ji and then in the same mouth they call his hukam a miracle, as if Satguru had to dig deep inside to perform such a hard task. It's his Hukam what is normal and what is a miracl or what is hard for him or what is simple for him?

Also the same people will accept after Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj lost his four sons Satguru ji got sad, but with the same mouth they call him Akal. They surely haven't read Sri Mool Mantar da paat, where it says no fear no hatred. They accept Satguru ji getting sad because they want others to believe that Satguru ji was only a human with human emotions. These people have doubts in themselves and they pass these same doubts on Satguru. Read Sikh history and a person has said that the Guru's did a drug because he did a drug.

If Satguru is your Guru then attach his traits to you by Naam Simran and if it's the other way around like many have done in the past, then stay away from others. Last point, How many read Jaap Sahib with concentration? If you did then there would have been no doubts in your mind.

[jassa]

Jassa Ji, you don't want us to spread rumours about Guru Sahib Ji but you are quite happy with the notion that Guru Ji basically tricked the khalsa panth.

Exactly these type of questions give rise to self written history.

Why should i think guru ji tricked i have full faith in guru sahib and i m not such a big bhagat or geyani to understand all the actions of guru sahib. Nor I wish to get all my queries answered right now. Its in hands of guru sahib to give me budhi to understand guru sahib.

Guru Hargobind sahib killed that pathan I forget his name in their fourth jang when he didnt had any shaster he was bare hand and guru sahib was on a horse.

I need not find some new itehas which may claim that he had a secret weapon hidden some where so guru jee attacked him

Nor i need some smartly written itehas how guru jee dressed up as muslim peer and sikhs singing uch da hai peer sada uch da hai peer and he is coming from haaj to get out of machi varra jangal.

Nor i need modified itehas to believe sukha singh and mehtab singh dressed as muslim naambardars when they went to kill massa rangar.

But i also believe in itehas after 60 years of guru Gobind singh went to sach khand they showed up in gawalior jail to take two sikhs out who did sukhmani sahib for 40 days non stop and every day they did ardas to show up

I also believe in itehas given by seva panthis that guru Hargobind sahib showed in 1901 at Mandi district himachal pardesh when 2 sikhs were attacked by lion and they did ardas in guru Hargobind sahib jis fee.

Dear brother I or any one else dont have any problem in believing in the itehas which is promoted on facebook or sikhsangat on every visakhi the only thing is there is no source attached to it.

If you or anyone can write a small name under it author or granth or book. Everyone will believe it.

But just blaming some one that if u dont believe it u dont have faith in guru sahib etc will not help anyone.

Old school granths such as prachin panth parkash suraj parkash gur bilas patshahi 10 nor any mahapursh sach as sant bhindrawalle maskeen ji baba nihal singh ji never mentioned about this eye witness itehas.

Why should i believe it not what panth parkash or suraj parkash says ? just because it is more appealing to my ears ?

[Only five]

Why should i believe it not what panth parkash or suraj parkash says ? just because it is more appealing to my ears ?

How is it pleasing to the hears when Satguru asked for heads and after the first head his sword wad drenched with blood when he came from the tent? It's about accepting what Satguru ji said.

[VanHelsingh]

But i also believe in itehas after 60 years of guru Gobind singh went to sach khand they showed up in gawalior jail to take two sikhs out who did sukhmani sahib for 40 days non stop and every day they did ardas to show up

Any links to this in full? I'd love to read more about what happened in this instance. Sounds amazing.

[jassa]

Any links to this in full? I'd love to read more about what happened in this instance. Sounds amazing.

Bala Rao and Rustam Rao it was not gwalior but maanmar and gurdwara guptsar is build their. They hold the feet of guru sahib and horse flew from inside jail to this place. Later both the brothers spend rest of their life doing seva at takth sri hazzor sahib.

Its also recorded in panth parkash.

[VanHelsingh]

Why did Guru Ji save them if they were moneh? Did they become Singhs later on?

[OhTwadi]

Why did Guru Ji save them if they were moneh? Did they become Singhs later on?

Be careful here, it looks like you are saying that guru sahib looked down upon non-Sikhs.

I think the question is not what Guru Sahib could or could not do, but more toward what really happened. It seems there are conflicting accounts written in history, which does not help shed any light on the actual event. Regardless, I feel it's the outcome that matters the most, Guru Sahib started khalsa panth on the day! :respect:

[VanHelsingh]

Be careful here, it looks like you are saying that guru sahib looked down upon non-Sikhs.

I never said they were non-Sikhs. Just not amritdhari Sikhs. I spent all of yesterday hearing every kathavachak and kirtani ragi saying that 'Mujhe Sikh Pyara Nahi, Mujhe Rehat Pyaari".

[wannabe akali]

Its not from Panth parkash nor any other good source for years i have been reading it on internet but not in any printed from. Couple of years on this very forum someone claimed its from a book kept at aligarh university or something.

Prachin Panth parkash has a different view. Till now no granth/book/sakhi written any form of print media from a known author has written that panj peyare were beheaded in front of sangat. Taksals Nihang singh jathebandis Takhts everyone says that they were taken in tent behind the stage.

How about reading panth parkash and finding out then? feel free to "try" and prove me wrong