National Anti-Beadbi Rally At Dudley, Uk -* Cancelled *-

[darknight]

For someone whose arguments for the centre are based solely around income generation i'm totally astounded that you don't check the figures before you write your words my friend......if you where on apprentice you would be fired for this....as for you identity being public and your grandfather being a decorated soldier my grandfather was also a soldier so no brownie points for that mate.....please check your facts before posting your ideology on business economics to the sangat....as you are probably a novice to the business world and also sikh principles so i advise you to do a bit of research first you don't look like a fool then!!

[Aman0001]

Saad Sangat, SukhdevSinghMedare is just trying to get us worked up so that we may take inappropriate actions at the rally. Please remember that in order to fulfil the Satkaar objective (which we all agree with) we need to behave in an appropraite manner, as literally the world will be watching. Any wrong actions will be multiplied by 10 and held against us.

[SukhdevSinghMedare]

For someone whose arguments for the centre are based solely around income generation i'm totally astounded that you don't check the figures before you write your words my friend......if you where on apprentice you would be fired for this....as for you identity being public and your grandfather being a decorated soldier my grandfather was also a soldier so no brownie points for that mate.....please check your facts before posting your ideology on business economics to the sangat....as you are probably a novice to the business world and also sikh principles so i advise you to do a bit of research first you don't look like a fool then!!

I have served as a Director for nine years,I compiled and submitted accounts to companies house without the aid of an accountant I have no interest in checking the figures because I am not the auditor ,as for your grandfather I suggest he would have advised you to directly ask who someone was, and not behind his back

I am just saying leave this to the elected representatives.

[SukhdevSinghMedare]

Saad Sangat, SukhdevSinghMedare is just trying to get us worked up

No thats not my intention, I want you to stop bullying the committee,they are the elected officials ,you are not!

[AK-47]

For the people asking what the difference is between money made by a party hall and that donated by a off license owner (for example).

The off license owner makes his money in his own name, he will pay his dues and receive his karam and Lekha as a result of his actions.

BUT a Gurdwara and any associated buildings I.e. Any buildings held in it's name are owned by Guru Nanak Dev Ji. So any income earned is done in the name of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Is this the type of income Maharajh would earn? Is this the karam we want to try and push onto guru sahib? Do we believe Guru Ji should or would make money from these ventures? History and gurmat say NO!

The 2 scenarios are very different. Let's not be silly and try and make them the same.

[SukhdevSinghMedare]

For the people asking what the difference is between money made by a party hall and that donated by a off license owner (for example).

When he donates it over, whose is that money then?its origin remains the same

[just_someone]

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

what an embarrassment the dudley clubwale are, they are wheeling out their long lost relatives who can use a pc to try to wind ppl up. i watched the show yesterday (great show) and it was the same tactic these clubwale where using on sunday when gursikhs from all fields of the community had a demo outside. sangat ji please dont fall for their maya tactics.

Benti to sukhdevji u really got to get off your money is God mentality as Sikhi is about gribee(being humble) u speak off your donations etc who gave u that in the first place Vaheguru, its up to u how u use that wealth would Guru Nanak Dev ji be proud u use His house as a business??

At the end off the day we are going to pay for our actions. So if i was you i would be worried about the judgement here and in Dharam Raajs court. The Sikhs across the UK and the local sikhs are against such practices its only a few families with their bling bling hard earned wealth that are bullying the locals into having their dirty parties there.

If you are worried about the income that comes from the hall, it shows u that the local sangat doesnot come to the gurdwara sahib and go else where as am sure there must be a few thousands sikhs in dudley why is that? if u was a worried about the next generation you would have a community center that was used for sikh study classes, scouts, self defence class, keep fit for old ppl, blood donation, charity events etc, u only got a a social club for our respected elders which is a right step to take, but soo much more can happen in a Gursikh way.

BETTER Still how about the local leaders use their brains and set up a nursery for our future so they can blossom in a sikhi environment?? theres so much a Gurdwara Sahib can do instead they want to get <Edited> and disrespect Sikhi the Faith our forefathers gave their lives for. SHAME

i will be there so will be my parents and i will spread the word out even more now, these ppl need to be told that Sikhi is not a business or a part time hobbie.

PANTH KI JEET

[SinghWarrior]

Oh my Vahiguroo. Our community really is in a pitiful state when we have the like of Mr Medare (and people like him in the Dudley committee) going to these extreme lengths to justify their passion for meat and alcohol in Gurdwara buildings. Sad state of affairs.

Aman bhajee makes an important point - these dudley lot will be looking for any excuse to point fingers at the sangat. It is most important that the sangat maintains their discipline on the day, joining in with the simran, mool mantar, chaupai sahibs and kirtan.

[AK-47]

Ok lets try again.

Your talking about two different things. Firstly you ask when it is donated, who does money belong to. When we donate i.e. make a gift without any expected return (i.e. not for consideration) then the money changes ownership and we have no rights to it or claim over it. So in this instance the money being donated to guru sahib, belongs to them. Same as if we donated £20 to Khalsa Aid, it would be theirs, we could not say that the money is mine, as soon as we pass it over as a donation, we loose all ownership rights.

So thats part 1.

Now for the origin bit. As I explained in the example above, the origin is not the same as it was not created by the same person. The creation of wealth and the subsequent donation of wealth are 2 seperate and unrealted issues. The issue being discussed is the creation of wealth outside of the morals and ethics of the code of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, BY Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Let me reiterate, Guru Nanak Dev Ji owns these buildings, any revenue raised is therfore done so in the name of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Now this point is simple and clear. Guru Nanak Dev Ji cannot make profits from activites which they themselves reject and criticise.

If Mr Off License conducts his trade, he does so in hiw own name. That is his business.

There is a clear and obvious distinction between the two issues your discussing.

One: the process of the creation of wealth.

Two: Legal entitlement and ownership of wealth on making a gift/donation.

i repeat the two are not mutually inclusive. The Satkar campaign is discussing the creation of weatlh in the name of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Simple.

[SinghWarrior]

As Kam on the Sikh Youth Show would say, the above poster "hit the nail on the head" ==> Seriously, Dudley committee-wale, there is yet time for you all to drop your ego, realise your mistake and stop meat, parties and alcohol at the Sikh Cultural Centre!