Basic Fact Of Sikhee

[Balbir Singh]

Only five Jee,

Please provide the reference from Gurdev when you wrote "Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it."

[Only five]

Only five Jee,

Please provide the reference from Gurdev when you wrote "Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it."

And before I can do that, I need to know what kind of reference your looking for.

[Balbir Singh]

Only five Jee,

You claimed "Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it."

Please provide a reference from the Sikh Gurus where and when they said so.

[harsharan000]

One thing is clear in all dharmas. Lord or Wahiguru, is the same thing. He is the only truth, that is why He is eternal. Apart from that, His Nam, and the souls are permanent. Different thing is, that some are near Him and some are far. According to the teachings of our Gurus`, the reason of our miseries is because we are separated from Him, the ocean of bliss and real happiness, our true Father. And the only solution to all pains, is to go back and merge in Him. Doing anything else is to prolong our stay in the creation where dissolutions and grand dissolutions take place. And anything made of maya, and the five elements : water, air, fire, earth and ether, are subject to perish; and as we know even our bodies are made of these elements, that`s why changes ocurr and one day we decay, so is the same of everthing we see, feel and touch with our gyan and karma indriyas, this means in a way, that nothing made of these inert and lifeless objects, can be a source of real happiness, bliss, and knowledge or gyan. Why? Because as said before, no truth is in them, as they are transient and perishable. The first characteristic or truth is, that it is unchangeable. It was truth in the begining, Aad Sach, it is the truth since ages Jugad Sach, it is the same truth even now Haebee Sach, and it will remain as truth hereafter Nanak hosee bhee Sach, and all these facts are only possible with Wahiguru, who has to be our sole objective and priority, above anything else.

That is why, our Gurus knowing Him and His Nam as only existing truth, stressed upon us to attach our chit, our mind to it. Why? Because as you dwell upon, there shall you go. We dwell upon wordly objects and things, which have no chetanta, no truth, so no consciousness in it, so naturally we are guaranteeing our coming back to this material level. Even our body is inert and lifeless, all it`s functions draw the needed energy from the soul. That is why, due to the lifeless and inert nature of all this gross, subtle and causal creation, our Gurus stressed as said before, to give our devotion to the only One and True Lord, and His Nam.

But why so? Because He and His Nam are beyond the regions where creation and dissolution take place; so naturally, by devoting ourselves to Parbraham Satnam only, through Nam Simran, can we achieve real freedom, and be able, to then merge ourselves in Wahiguru.

Our bani left by our Gurus`is atee sunder, atee meethee, atee pyaree. Guru Sahiban, Panchvee Patshahee makes it very simple and clear to us, of how the devtion should be done, and whom alone should it be done, in Raag Maajh, in the following lines :

so gi-aan Dhi-aan jo tuDh bhaa-ee : that is true wisdom and (devotion) meditation, that alone which pleases you,

We must bear in our minds, that anything we do, we must think before, will this really please my Lord? Otherwise, no matter how many million other acts one may perform, all are like decorations on a dead body, which is same like saying : simply useless, manmukhta.

Then in the second line, he goes direct to the point :

so-ee jap jo parabh jee-o bhaavai bhaanai poor gi-aanaa jee-o: He is pleased alone, by the jaap of His Nam, and in doing so, that means pleasing Him, is the perfect spiritual wisdom.

But then, one may ask, if this is so, then why almost all the world does not do (Nam Simran), and is engaged in so many other outer aspects of devotion, in which the whole world is occupied day and night, thinking it to be true.

Now, for this also Guru sahiban has an answer, in His next line:

amrit naam tayraa so-ee gaavai. jo saahib tayrai man bhaava: he alone chants your Name ( Nam Simran ), who is pleasing to You, my Lord, my Master.

This has to be so, if everybody easily believed in these facts, simple but true in essence, just let us ask ourselves, how would the creation go on? If the creation has to go on, imperfection has to go on also. It is not in our hand to do anything, we can do only ardaas at His holy feet, that, please bless me with Your, sadh Kee sangat, that then even a rusted piece of iron like myself be carried across the sea of this huge creation, and place me at Your Lotus feet

Guru Amardas, also says nothing else is needeed to be done to meet our beloved, only Nam Simran, which is the real Amrit; that can conquer, the five thieves, mind and Kal; and is the real Amrit to give us everlasting peace and life, at the feet of Wahiguru, when He says : Eh man mayreeya, toon sadah raho har Naalay( this is being referred to Nam Simran),

Har Naal rahoh toon man mayray, dookh sabh visaarna: If you do so, by staying in Nam Simran, all your pains (sins ) shall be erased.

Because our sins are the root cause of our suffering, karmas whether good or bad, both are bindings to this creation, and so the sins can only be washed, not by any outer amrit, but by the Amrit of His Nam, which is made and produced by Nam Simran.

We can take the bani of any of our Gurus´, only His sift salahee( His praises) and devtion to Him, through His Nam Simran, is mentiond. Anything apart from that, is manmukhta, is ignorance. And this ignorance can only be removed, as said before, in His Sadh kee Sangat, because, it is there where we learn about what is pleasing to the Lord, and what is not, and that is the tat, the essence of spirituality, and that is Gurmukhta.

[Only five]

To the above poster that ignores my questions and continues to call the 5 kakkar false. Here is a shabad by Satugur Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj praising the 5 element in the form of sword, gun, double edged sword, etc Next you will have the above poster saying shastar puja is wrong.

Those that put their trust in Satguru, they don't call the 5 kakkar false.

[Only five]

Because our sins are the root cause of our suffering, karmas whether good or bad, both are bindings to this creation, and so the sins can only be washed, not by any outer amrit, but by the Amrit of His Nam, which is made and produced by Nam Simran.

How more sinister can you get by calling Amrit from the Punj Pyare false; unable to wash sin. Amrit from the Punj Pyare is Satguru's Naam. The Punj Pyare are full of Naam Simran. The Punj Banis that are read over the immortal nectar are full of Naam.

I hope one day you wake up from your deep sleep and stop slandering the practices of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj.

[harsharan000]

Following are some lines, of the post of brother Mehtab Singh , from his thread how to meet Wahiguru in this very forum :

ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਬਧੇ ਅਹੰਮੇਵ ॥

Ritual practices bind people in egotism;

ਮਿਲਿ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਹੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੩॥

meeting together, they worship stones. ||3||

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Says Kabeer, He is obtained only by devotional worship.

ਭੋਲੇ ਭਾਇ ਮਿਲੇ ਰਘੁਰਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੬॥

Through innocent love, the Lord is met. ||4||6||

Brother "five only", your behaviour is like a naughty and inmature child. Do you know the meaning of respect and freedom? If yes, then do it, if not, then learn it. One may disagree over certain matters, but that does not mean you have to force... which is as bad as fanatism. Put your ideas, with references, with the support of bani, and then leave it, but do not force. Do something of your own, not putting videos of you tube, and this or that was done or said, prove it, as brother Balbir Singh asked you some days ago, but it seems, you have no logic answers.

Going back to the point of that I do not bother to answer you, which is not true at all, because I have given answers from within the bani, not made by me nor of somebody´s sayings like you, but still if you do not understand... as said before you need more time to mature the truths of the Bani, though simple, they are complicated for all, but it seems more for you. Open your mind, use a little bit of logic and common sense, do not be so rigid. In this world there are hindus, muslims, christians around us, who do not believe in Sikhee... then what are you going to do...if you are so strong.... go and convert and convince them. Let us see your, so power , of fantasies and illusions, castles in the air.

At least for me, I can not talk for others, but for me, only Wahiguru and the Bani is truth and law. Nothing is superior to them. Do not forget, in JapJi Sahib it is said: Ik Onkar.... Karta Purukh. There is only one Lord, and He is the only doer. Remeber, only He, nobody else, and it is to this Wahiguru, to whom I only bow and make the objective of my devotion, thanks to the teachings of our Gurus`. But it seems, that you have to be reminded of all this. Only WAHIGURU, nobody else.

The punj pyares you talk about, deserve all respect and admiration, as they inspire us, how our faith and love should be for Guru Jee, but that is all. Whatsoever they got, was given by the same and unique giver, to them, to all and everybody: Wahiguru. I wished they were here today, if they were, they would have surely scolded you, for your nonsense. Shame on you, while being in the presence of the Sache Patshah Wahiguru, you dare to name others? He is the only Saache Sahib, and the rest of us, are all at most, kookars at His door. How dare you mention other things, while being in His presence? He is the true Sultan, true Shanshah. He is only One, none apart from Him. Again and again you have to remember, chetanta or consciousness is not to be found in any thing made from any of the 5 tattwas, single or combined, neither this body. If inert items can get us real gyan, real understanding, then surely Wahiguru is not needed, it is just silly to think so. Our Gurus, try to take our attention from the mayavee and lifeless outside world, and attach our attention to His feet inside by Nam Simran, but we like the outer and lifeless things instead, are we not manmukhs? Outer things, outer mannerisms are social habits in community rules, just to show others that, I am so and so, but there is no spirituality or ruhaniyat in it. It is o.k to follow them, because we have been born in a particular country, caste, community or class, but that is all, nothing more. Love for Him, is generated in us by His devotion, not by outer fittings or dresses, neither by putting on certain ornaments. Humans may like to do so to impress others, or give them our way of identifying ourselves in the society.... bu think a littel bit, it does not matter to Wahiguru, how you dress of make up, He only sees if you have love for Him or not, and if we want to impress Him, love and humility should be our outfits.

The true Amrit referred by our Gurus`is mentioned by Guru Amar Das in Raag Maajh:

amrit banee gur kee meethee. The bani of the Guru is sweet Amrit. ( This bani is not made, by the water, one of the 5 tattwas, which are mayavee,)

Further on He says: satgur hai amrit sar saachaa man naavai mail chukaavani-aa. The true Guru is the real pool, real fountain of Amrit (Nectar), in which by bathing in it, the filth of the mind ( sins ) are washed away. The real Amrit, is the bani of Wahiguru Himself, created and made by Himself, as stated by Guru Amar Das above, not man made, with elements like water and sugar. And this Amrit`s effect is by listening to it, by our souls, not by making it and drinking it in a vessel or a glass.

It seems you like diversity, you name the 5K, the Punj Pyares.... While the bani says: Ik Onkar.... He is the only one, without any two, three, four or five. The Gurus have said, that when we go back to Him, we merge in Him and become like Him; so all these past good souls, were so pure, that they merged in Wahiguru; if you can go and trace them, try to find them where they are... then come and tell me, what is their condition now.

It is because of the mind, that we have diversity. But in Him, all become Him, so then, how are you going to differentiate. Or do you think that doing bhakti and being one with Him, is like going to a hill station for holidays? All this ocurrs at this physicall level man, not at His level. Suppose I give you 10 drops of water, to go and pour them in the ocean, then after 1 hour, I tell you to go and bring them, can you? Surely not, because they have become one with the ocean, that is the same what happened with Panj pyares and the Gurus`, bhagats, and sants. We merge in Wahiguru, only by loosing our gross and subtle identity (mind), not by keeping it. Your thinking shows that you believe that , those who go there , in Sach Khand, are still individuals, with their bodies,minds, personalities..... nooooooooo, the drops have become one with the Ocean. Do you understand?

May God bless you!

[Only five]

Following are some lines, of the post of brother Mehtab Singh , from his thread how to meet Wahiguru in this very forum :

ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਬਧੇ ਅਹੰਮੇਵ ॥

Ritual practices bind people in egotism;

ਮਿਲਿ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਹੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੩॥

meeting together, they worship stones. ||3||

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Says Kabeer, He is obtained only by devotional worship.

ਭੋਲੇ ਭਾਇ ਮਿਲੇ ਰਘੁਰਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੬॥

Through innocent love, the Lord is met. ||4||6||

Brother "five only", your behaviour is like a naughty and inmature child. Do you know the meaning of respect and freedom? If yes, then do it, if not, then learn it.

Ask Mehtab Singh ji what he thinks of the Punj Kakkar and he'll never use Satguru's Bani against Satguru's practices (Punj Kakkar) like you have.

Your attacking the practices of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj by using the same Satguru's Bani. You have no respect for Maharaj. There is no freedom in slandering Maharaj practices.

One may disagree over certain matters, but that does not mean you have to force... which is as bad as fanatism.

What is there to disagree on. You can't call yourself a Sikh of Maharaj and then call the 5 Kakkar rituals. A person that doesn't really know about Sikhi can make the mistake, but a person like you is doing it deliberately on here.

Put your ideas, with references, with the support of bani, and then leave it, but do not force.

Do something of your own, not putting videos of you tube, and this or that was done or said, prove it, as brother Balbir Singh asked you some days ago, but it seems, you have no logic answers.

Tell me where in Satguru's Bani it says 5 kakkar are rituals? All you have done is taken Maharaj's Bani and intrepreted into what you believe Maharaj is pointing too. This means you are being biased to the point where your view don't even align with the practices of Sikhi (Gurmat taught by Satguru).

The youtube video has the GURBANI of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. This GURBANI is from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The Bani clearly states sword is a senior and here is the rehat of Satguru:

Drih kys pwhul ibnw ByKI mUVw isK ] myrw drsn nwih iqs pwpI iqAwgy iBK ]5]

dhharehi kaes paahul binaa bhaekhee moorraa sikh || maeraa dharasan naahi this paapee thiaagae bhikh ||5||

Those who keep their hair but do not get initiated are faithless sinners. They will never receive my blessing.

Rehatnama Bhai Sahib Singh Jee

http://sikhitothemax...Rehat.asp?ID=99

Do you see the blessing Satguru gives to those that take Amrit from the Punj Pyare, which are the form of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj.

Going back to the point of that I do not bother to answer you, which is not true at all, because I have given answers from within the bani, not made by me nor of somebody´s sayings like you,

The Bani says one thing and you intrepret it, into something you want people to believe and follow. Hence you want to become a Guru and don't follow Satguru. And you did not answer my questions at all. You avoided them every step of the way.

but still if you do not understand... as said before you need more time to mature the truths of the Bani, though simple, they are complicated for all, but it seems more for you.

Your sinister hidden views are being shown here now.

Open your mind, use a little bit of logic and common sense, do not be so rigid. In this world there are hindus, muslims, christians around us, who do not believe in Sikhee... then what are you going to do...if you are so strong.... go and convert and convince them. Let us see your, so power , of fantasies and illusions, castles in the air.

If a Hindu comes on this forum and says the practices of Satguru are rituals, then i would say no different to him/her as i have said to you. The Khalsa Panth way of life is universal and doesn't deny anyone and if a person see otherwise, then their mind is closed and they don't have the knowledge to speak on the Khalsa Panth.

For me at least, I can not talk for others, but for me, only Wahiguru and the bani is truth and law. Nothing is superior to them. Do not forget, in JapJi Sahib it is said: Ik Onkar.... Karta Purukh. Ther is only one Lord, and He is the only doer. Remeber, only He, nobody else, and it is to this Wahiguru, to whom I only bow and make the objective of my devotion, thanks to the teachings of our Gurus`. But it seems, that you have to be reminded of all this. Only WAHIGURU, nobody else.

The Khalsa Panth bows all command of Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in the form of Gurbani and rehat. Here is what Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj says about following rehat.

ਰਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਮੁਝ ਕਉ ਸਿੱਖ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਾਹਿ ॥

"More than a Sikh, dear to me is to follow the rules of the Sikh conduct."

(Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama)

The punj pyares you talk about, deserve all respect and admiration, as they inspire how our faith and love should be for Guru Jee, but that is all. Whatsoever they got, was given by the same and unique giver, for all and everybody: Wahiguru. I wished they were here today, if they were, they would have surely scolded you, for your nonsense.

You reject and write against the role and duties the Punj Pyare were given by Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and i'm going to be scolded! You have a very twisted view of reality.

Here is more rehat of Satguru:

"It is by the offering of your head that the Five Singhs administer AmritAnd you receive the boon of Amrit.

The five narrate a discipline, Which is to be thought of at all times and never forgotten."

(Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh Jee)

"The Khalsa - an Amritdharee disciplined Sikh is my true form, I am present in such Sikhs."

Your Worship is of Akaal Purkh (the Timeless Lord). By living according to the Rehat, Guru Sahib will bless the individual and he says,

http://www.damdamita...8&limitstart=13

Shame on you, while being in the presence of the Sache Patshah Wahiguru, you dare to name others? He is the only Saache Sahib, and the rest of us, are all at most, kookars at His door. How dare you mention other things, while being in His presence?

Your a child with a keyboard. I don't take your words serious now.

It seems you like diversity, you name the 5K, the Punj Pyares.... While the bani says: Ik Onkar.... He is the only one, without any two, three, four or five.

When a man is at the end and has nothing left to get their twisted and distorted views, then they look for any foolish arguement to get their point across. There was 10 Gurus, so did the Gurus who taught the Bani go wrong by being 10 of them? Seriously im laughing at you now.....lol Here i'll point out your distorted argument again. There is only one, but how come it says Mehl 1, Mehl 2, etc in Gurbani? You speak of Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Arjan Dev ji, but there is only one. I hope you get the point, but you'll twist, grind, distort, fill your remarks with hate toward the rehat (Khalsa) and write off your writing as Satguru's teachinges again.

It is in your imagination only, while the Gurus said, when we go back to Him, we merge in Him and become like Him, all the past good souls, were so pure that they merged in Wahiguru, if you can go and trace them, try to find them where they are...

It is because of the mind, that we have diversity. But in Him, all become Him, so then, how are you going to differentiate them. Or do you think that doing bhakti and being one with Him is like going to a hill station for holidays? All this ocurrs at this physicall level, not at His level. Suppose I give you 10 drops to go go and pour them in the ocean, then after 1 hour I tell you to go and bring them, can you? Surely not, because they have become one with the ocean, that is the same what happened with Panj pyares and the Gurus`. Do you understand? May God bless you!

When a person reads Gurbani they look for ways to justify their lifestyle. When they find those shabads they don't understand the Gurbani as Gurbani, but add their twisted views to the Bani and run it off as Satguru's intrepretation. Then they use this intrepretation to call Satguru's practices false.

The Punj Pyare live with the Bani of the Guru's. As long as there is Bani there will always be Punj Pyare. Satguru did not leave the Punj Pyare for 1699 only, but continued the practice, so every follower of Satguru can drink the immortal nectar (Amrit). Don't believe me! then read the above rehat from the Punj Pyare that Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj gave Amrit.

[harsharan000]

You keep on denying the reality. You mention none references from the Bani, while you just know to accuse. I am not slandering any teachings of the Gurus, on the contrary, I only praise Wahiguru and the Gurus, that`s all. Soul and Supreme Soul only. No other outer interferences. Real rehat is the one which takes one nearer towards Him, and that is Nam bhakti, and this can be done by keeping an eye over the mind, that it does not wander here or there even for a second, then yes by doing so, you are a true sikh. Real rehat is the one, which takes us nearer the truth, and truth is Nam, apart from it all is fanah, all is nashwant. The power and truth in all the Gurus is the same, though outwardly they appear different physically. Neither you, me or those living now were present when Guru Jee left this world, so nobody can say that this is truth or false, but yes, His words can be known as truth if compared to those Gurus who left before Him, in the similarity. Then you may ask, but we were neither there, in the times of other Gurus. But there is a slight difference, there was still a Guru to follow, which means the teachings could not be manipulated.

It is a second time, you say that I make myself a Guru, are you not ashamed by saying so? Guru is very high entity, I am a sinner and very low, and Gurgaddhi is passed on, by the previous Guru on someone worthy for it. You can not be greedy and grab it by force, which is a sin to even think about it, I never thought you could fall so low. But even then, I pray, may God bless you.

[Only five]

This would be my last post to you since your in denial of the rehat.

You keep on denying the reality. You mention none references from the Bani, while you just know to accuse.

The rehat that Punj Pyare (that Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj blessed upon the Punj Pyare) gave and give comes from Gurbani. You're in denial and it looks like you will not change your distorted views any time soon.

I am not slandering any teachings of the Gurus, on the contrary, I only praise Wahiguru and the Gurus, that`s all.

When you call the 5 kakkar a ritual then it's a slander. You need to understand Gurbani at a deeper level to understand rehat

Soul and Supreme Soul only. No other outer interferences.

What you call interference, Satguru calls important and the definition of a Sikh. I take what Satguru says as true and your view as false.

Real rehat is the one which takes one nearer towards Him, and that is Nam bhakti, and this can be done by keeping an eye over the mind, that it does not wander here or there even for a second, then yes by doing so, you are a true sikh. Real rehat is the one, which takes us nearer the truth, and truth is Nam, apart from it all is fanah, all is nashwant.

Rehat of the Satguru keeps a person focused on Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj.

Neither you, me or those living now were present when Guru Jee left this world, so nobody can say that this is truth or false, but yes, His words can be known as truth if compared to those Gurus who left before Him, in the similarity. Then you may ask, but we were neither there, in the times of other Gurus. But there is a slight difference, there was still a Guru to follow, which means the teachings could not be manipulated.

Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj told us the rehat when he was here in the physical form. So no manipulation, your just a person that hates the Khalsa. Many of you exist in this world and I hope one day you wake up from your deep sleep.

It is a second time, you say that I make myself a Guru, are you not ashamed by saying so? Guru is very high entity, I am a sinner and very low, and Gurgaddhi is passed on, by the previous Guru on someone worthy for it. You can not be greedy and grab it by force, which is a sin to even think about it, I never thought you could fall so low. But even then, I pray, may God bless you.

When you sit on a forum preaching against the rehat then you are a person teaching something that is not in Sikhi and is your teaching which means your created it. You speak of 'spirituality' and use the Satguru's Bani to preach your views. This makes you a Guru. Here is some advice, go do Sri Chaupai Sahib da paat.