Christians In Punjab

[West London Singh]

Wales, honestly a very stupid article. If we go by that logic Christianity is copied from Judaism and Islam is a mixture of Judaism, Christianity and Pagan rituals (allah was the name of the moon god, etc)

Sevadaar, the bits it copied from judaism is barely scratching the surface as to how pathetics and false it is as a religion. Basically, all Christianity is, is a group of people who in biblical times who took bits and pieces of various Greek, Roman and Zoarastian gods and put them all together to represent one man ; jesus.

You know, there is nothing I like more than having a discussion with one of those evangelists outside Holy Trinity Church in Hounslow High Street. They start off so positive with so much zeal but within a few minutes with me they soon walk off at speed with their tail between their legs. Next time any Sikh comes across a 'christian' trying to convert Sikhs, the Sikh should ask him about 'Mithras'. Mithras, was the Greco-Roman god (named after the Zoarastian god Mithra) who was very popular around the time of jesus, and predates christianity by a few centuries.

Mithras......was born in a manger.

Mithras.....was born to a virgin.

Mithras.....when he was born, was visited by 3 Zoarastian kings from the east.

Mithras....had 12 disciples.

Mithras.....was sent to earth to live in human form to deliver us from our sins.

Mithras's....speciality was 'forgiveness'.

Mithras....died on a friday and miracously came back alive again 2 days later for a bit.

All in all, christianity is a pretty pathetic religion for pretty pathetic people. Its really not hard to argue with individual christians.

[SevadaarEKhalsa]

Yes you are right.

Do you have any article about these Greek/Roman/Zoroastrian myths and Christianity?

[ba72764]

What do you guys expect? I mean one of the main princilpes of sikhism is about equality and not differentiating between castes but sadly this is definitely not followed by many sikhs today. In my opinion not only Sikhs but everyone should not believe in the caste system, it is mean and outdated. These "low-caste" ppl are not even considered sikh, I've heard the word "Adharmi" used for them. Furthermore I dont think anyone converting to christianity is anyone's business. Everyone has the freedom to practice the religion of their choice and besides isnt Sikhi all about One God anways?? I think you guys are forgetting that.

I dont think these missionaries should be using sikh words as mentioned earlier though but other than that its really not that big of a deal. There are other issues in this world bigger than this.

[Wales85]

My God this thread has degenerated. Christianity is a pathetic religion for a pathetic people? God made them, and God loves them... but you feel justified in speaking like this? Please bro, take a deep breath and think about what you say.

[Singh559]

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 266

srb Drm mih sRyst Drmu ]

sarab dhharam mehi sraesatt dhharam ||

Of all religions, the best religion

hir ko nwmu jip inrml krmu ]

har ko naam jap niramal karam ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

sgl ik®Aw mih aUqm ikirAw ]

sagal kiraaa mehi ootham kiriaa ||

Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual

swDsMig durmiq mlu ihirAw ]

saadhhasa(n)g dhuramath mal hiriaa ||

is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy.

sgl audm mih audmu Blw ]

sagal oudham mehi oudham bhalaa ||

Of all efforts, the best effort

hir kw nwmu jphu jIA sdw ]

har kaa naam japahu jeea sadhaa ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever.

sgl bwnI mih AMimRq bwnI ]

sagal baanee mehi a(n)mrith baanee ||

Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech

hir ko jsu suin rsn bKwnI ]

har ko jas sun rasan bakhaanee ||

is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue.

sgl Qwn qy Ehu aUqm Qwnu ]

sagal thhaan thae ouhu ootham thhaan ||

Of all places, the most sublime place,

nwnk ijh Git vsY hir nwmu ]8]3]

naanak jih ghatt vasai har naam ||8||3||

O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides. ||8||3||

[Singh559]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghGn9QmHISA&

[West London Singh]

My God this thread has degenerated. Christianity is a pathetic religion for a pathetic people? God made them, and God loves them... but you feel justified in speaking like this? Please bro, take a deep breath and think about what you say.

Selective reading, Wales ??

Reading the last sentence in isolation without bothering with the body of the text that lead to the last sentence is silly to say the least ?

Pray tell...if not 'pathetic'....what word should be used to describe a religion which just borrowed myths and legends from various Greek, Roman, Zoarastian and pagan dieties.....and put them all together to represent the life and times of just one man ?

What do you guys expect? I mean one of the main princilpes of sikhism is about equality and not differentiating between castes but sadly this is definitely not followed by many sikhs today. In my opinion not only Sikhs but everyone should not believe in the caste system, it is mean and outdated. These "low-caste" ppl are not even considered sikh, I've heard the word "Adharmi" used for them. Furthermore I dont think anyone converting to christianity is anyone's business. Everyone has the freedom to practice the religion of their choice and besides isnt Sikhi all about One God anways?? I think you guys are forgetting that

.

And how exactly does that theory of yours fit in with the fact that the biggest number of Sikhs converting to christianity are the Jatts ????? The chura tradition of being christian, in Punjab, is as long as Sikhi is, but even then there are far fewer churas becoming christian than yesteryear. The chamars are asserting their ravidassia faith more and more...and have no inclination towards christianity. The ramgharias stay with Sikhi. The sainis stay with Sikhi. And the Khatri are quite happy to stay with their Sikhi / Hindu hybrid. The only people falling victim, en masse, to the evil methods of the christian missionaries are the Jatts. So....given what you said above....are we now in the realms of psychology...or psychiatry ? Are you saying...that on a deeper level...the jatt sikhs are increasingly having psychotic episodes whereby they hate themselves....discriminate against themselves....look down on themselves.....refuse to let their daughter marry someone like themselves....refuse to eath with themselves....refuse to touch themselves ?

I notice that was your first message here, ba72764. So far...you've shown yourself possessing the kind of IQ (lack of)the christian missionaries are looking for.

'Converting', as you put it is indeed the private business of the individual....but it is the 'grooming' that christians do that we Sikhs find distastefull. In this regard, they are very akin to the peadophile perverts. They seem to share many similarities with the peados. The peados pretend to be 14 year girls in order to gain the chatroom trust of the 14 year old girl. The christian....according to their guidebook and university courses on the subject...pretend to be interested in Sikhism in order to gain the trust of the Sikhs. The peado waits for the right time before he strikes against his vulnerable victim. The christian waits for the right time before he strikes against his vulnerable victim.

Anyway...you've felt the need to become a member of a Sikh forum in order to state how wonderfull it is that sikhs become christianity. You obviously have much love and respect for the great god Mithras. Good luck with your Mithraism.

[VanHelsingh]

And how exactly does that theory of yours fit in with the fact that the biggest number of Sikhs converting to christianity are the Jatts ????? The chura tradition of being christian, in Punjab, is as long as Sikhi is, but even then there are far fewer churas becoming christian than yesteryear. The chamars are asserting their ravidassia faith more and more...and have no inclination towards christianity. The ramgharias stay with Sikhi. The sainis stay with Sikhi. And the Khatri are quite happy to stay with their Sikhi / Hindu hybrid. The only people falling victim, en masse, to the evil methods of the christian missionaries are the Jatts.

You see this baffles me. What reason could a Jatt Sikh have for converting to Christianity? Or are we referring to the Jatt Sikhs living in poverty back home who feel they have no choice but to become Christian in order to receive free medical treatment, etc? Are Jatt Sikhs outside of India also converting to Christianity?

[dalsingh101]

You see this baffles me. What reason could a Jatt Sikh have for converting to Christianity? Or are we referring to the Jatt Sikhs living in poverty back home who feel they have no choice but to become Christian in order to receive free medical treatment, etc? Are Jatt Sikhs outside of India also converting to Christianity?

I've met a couple.

In fact my flat mates pastor was a Jatti convert in London. From what my flatmate told me (based on conversations with her), she felt that her family (and by implication I imagine the rest of our society too?) was restrictive and hypocritical and found 'truth' and 'light' in Christianity.

Make of it what you will? I think poverty is a big factor in conversions back home, but I think other factors are at play with conversions in the west. Look at Nikki Haley in the US for another example. Her family certainly weren't poor.

Many years ago some goray Christians turned up on our doorstep. They talked all friendly and had literature written in Panjabi and even a Panjabi dubbed video of Jesus's life!

Our people sometimes have this simplistic view of religion where they try and use it almost like a talisman to ward off 'difficult times'. If a family is in a vulnerable position, I can imagine that they would be susceptible to convert as relief from their troubles. Plus straight up, I don't really think our society is one that is particularly open and supportive along social needs. So a family having tough times have to go through it on their own. For such families the whole 'pastoral' side of Christianity, may provide much needed relief and succor. We need more pastoral support for families in crisis in my opinion, instead of people having to 'suffer in silence' because of this macho thing we have going on.

[VanHelsingh]

Could it be that the perceived committment to become a fully-fledged Sikh is seen as too much of a sacrifice for these Sikhs who convert? As we all know, Sikhi is a way of life and maybe some people aren't prepared to go the distance?

Without giving too much detail, I've had a tough time of it for the past decade or so. I was bed-ridden for most of that time and only as recently as last August or so have managed to get up and about again. During that time, my mother would tell me how Panjabi Christians (ex-Sikhs) who she worked with would tell her they were praying for me at church, and how my mum and I should let a vicar come to our house, etc. Mata Ji was having none of it and nor was I, but it was funny how they were trying to recruit us at our lowest moment. We had and do have firm belief in Waheguru and Sikhi, but I can imagine how some people might be easily swayed especially if they feel their own religion has somehow failed them.