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Cross Roads Gurdwara Coventry . Akj, Babbar Or Tarmala ?


mrsinghs
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I have seen another warrior race, the Chechen Sufis, in their zikrs of "Allah" and "La ilaha ell Allah" become totally enveloped and immersed in the Love of the Lord - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jWj8i65emMY. These Singhs are reciting VaheGuroo and have gone to a next stage of ecstasy. MrSinghs I think there is something sinister in your post, as if you have an axe to grind. Why not put in the time and effort to meditate on VaheGuroo, Allah, Raam, Hari or any mantar to see where it leads you, and you may find yourself a happier and more content soul rather than the bitter and conceited one you are now.

Chechens are one of the fiercest of warrior people in the world. From what I have seen from other Qaums is that the people that get Mast during Bhagti usually get the most violent when push comes to shove.

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I have seen another warrior race, the Chechen Sufis, in their zikrs of "Allah" and "La ilaha ell Allah" become totally enveloped and immersed in the Love of the Lord - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jWj8i65emMY. These Singhs are reciting VaheGuroo and have gone to a next stage of ecstasy. MrSinghs I think there is something sinister in your post, as if you have an axe to grind. Why not put in the time and effort to meditate on VaheGuroo, Allah, Raam, Hari or any mantar to see where it leads you, and you may find yourself a happier and more content soul rather than the bitter and conceited one you are now.

How can you compare the two, one is controlled, one is uncontrolled, one is tranquil and in tune....the other is all over the place and wild...how can you support such things?...what if i did bhangra while saying waheguru?..would that be ok? NO...naam simran needs to be controlled and done with concentration...not shaking yourselves till your dastaar comes off and your hair is all over the place...<banned word filter activated>?

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I know that from the video it look weird. But I have seen similar stuff happening at AKJ smagams, and I'm not against that either. The way I see it is, if a Sikh enter into Sikhi through AKJ, Tarmala group, DDT, Akal Takht, Nanaksar, Nihang it's all good just as long as they beleive in the basics such as Nitnem (7 Banis), Amritvela, 5 Kakkars, Naam Japnaa. But if any group does not beleive in the strict keeping of Nitnem (7 Banis), Amritvela, 5 Kakkars, Naam Japnaa and avoids any of these (must) Sikh principles then that group should be avoided.

That video is nothing like AKJ smagams, they dont have somebody there telling you to move your body like that or in anyway at all. People who do move around do it for their own concentration or whatever, and I have never seen an AKJ smagam where they are jumping around as much as that video.

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SO HOW IS THE BRAHM GYAANEE CERTIFICATE, THAT TARMALA GIVES, JUSTIFIED?!?!??!???

Surely it proves that people just do this simran to become brahm gyaan, no?

As gursikh we are meant to do bhagti to express the love we have vaaheguroo.

We don't do it in order to become brahm gyaan or a santh etc

We do it because we have been given a Hukam (order) from mahaaraaj to do it, therefore our frame of mind should be "I am doing this simran for you, do whatever you want with me, give me brahm gyaan, don't give me brahm gyaan, I don't care, because as long as I'm getting to do your simran, then I'm satisfied."

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10. Again in that interview on sikh channel Tarmala explained that they don't give Brahm Gyani certificate. They just certify that people have done 1 or two years course their and have had "Shabad-Surat da mel" (merging into the lord). Well I though only Brahm Gyanis merge into Lord. So those statements are self contradicting again.

Thank you for the clarification.

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Watching things like this are a bit odd and intimidating to me. I've never ever seen anything like this in a Gurdwara i've been to in my life. To be honest not seen anything like this in 20 or so years, is this a new concept?

Saying that the Evengelicals,and Jehovahs witnesses, Sufis and so on do this singing, chanting, moving about like mad, some say it puts them in a trance...? I do not see any mention of such things occuring the the Darbars of any of the Dhan Guru Sahibs?

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waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

In order to clear up the constant lies spread around, Bhai Sahib stated on the Sikh Channel interview once again that they do not issue any Brahm Gian degrees. The students at the university at the end of the Gurmat course get a certificate just stating what they did there. Also they don't call themselves a Brahm Giani, they go by the the title of Bhai and preach Gurmat. By the way many AKJ members were at the Gurdwara and have travelled from afar to attend the England Samagam. Bhai Amolak Singh Ji of the AKJ did Kirtan at Gurdwara Prabh Milne Ka Chao at Moga, other AKJ members have actually done the course there. So hopefully this clears up any confusion and misinformation being spread by sources with their own agendas, and hopefully this post isn't deleted by anyone wanting lies to be spread. As for the one poster who raised the question about that Katha of the last test, if you had listened to the topic carefully you would have heard how Gurbani says Bhai Lehna Ji became Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji.

Harminder Singh I can answer some of your questions:

3. No they explain the 5 vikaar's are Sookham invisible not physical, but as in Gurbani our mind is in a Yudh with them, or wrestling match, many examples are given in Gurbani.

4. The drawings aren't to explain what happens in the brain, the drawings are used to help understand the different points that Guru Sahib mentions in Gurbani. As for the Takhts you didn't understand or you spoke to someone who didn't understand, Kesgarh Sahib, Anandpur Sahib, Akal Takht, Harmandar Sahib are outside but also inside and are referenced by their names and maps.

5. The colors are mentioned in Gurbani in Terms of elements, each color is for each element and are encountered when doing Simran, and Parkash is mentioned as well in Gurbani. Giani Thakur Singh Ji mentions different colors during Simran in one of his Kathas as well.

6. No what you see in the video does not mean those people have met the Lord, again someone may have confused you.

7. I watched the same interview from California via the net, Bhai Sahib explained that when someone learns to die by the Shabad as in Gurbani they don't necessarily have awareness of what is happening with clothes as they are emmersing their Surti in the Shabad. That doesn't mean that the Dastar coming off is natural. They had mentioned however that ever since Parchar was started there was no incident like this, and many people connected to different parties and Sants who have been sending various people to the Gurdwara may have been looking to purposely cause mischief. It wasn't a contradiction.

8. There are 3 types of Katha mentioned in Gurbani and this is Akath Katha, many may have read similar Katha by other Gurmuhks such as Baba Jawala Singh Ji and Baba Eshar Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale, infact in Baba Eshar Singh Ji's book Eshwar Amuliya Laal (available online) Akath Katha is mentioned, it is simply the Wichaar of Gurmat according to Gurbani about how we became separated from the Lord and are to meet the Lord again.

9. Brahm Gyan is the knowledge Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji gives us, the centre is a School for this knowledge thus is called Brahm Gyan University. It is not marketing it is just a name.

10. Bhai Sahib explained in the interview they don't give Brahm Gian degrees, the certificate is for students who have practiced the teachings of Gurbani there at the Gurdwara. Brahm Gianis are only created by the Lord. They didn't say that the people are certified to have Shabad Surti Da mel, that is the aim of doing abhyaas there at the school, you misunderstood, the certificate itself only states that the Gurmukh practiced Nam Drir, Gurmantar Drir, and Sach Drir for a year.

12. Many Gurmukhs mention this happening in many Jathas. This technique is mentioned in Gurbani.

13. There is a difference between criticizing ie Nindya and telling the Truth. Nindya is due for punishment as per Gurbani.

It is better to ask a Gurmukh directly to clear up misunderstanding, like Bhai Ajit Singh Ji, or Bhai Sahib, everyone is willing to write on the net but are just to shy to talk in person, they were even taking calls during the interview but not many people phoned.

Well , I have followed whats happening in Swindon and Moga and on Sikh channel and I have even been to some of their samagams in Swindon. I have had views from some very knowledgable people both in India and UK and here is what I have to say. I will not get into any argument and will not write on this thread again.

1. They do many things right in their gurdwaras. Nitnem, Langar, respect for SGGS, belief in amrit, simran, kirtan.

2. Ajit Singh in Swindon doesn't even know very basic lines of gurbani( some of daily nitnem), I have seen him struggle to say those lines without looking at something. This leads me to beleive he doesn't gve that much emphasis on Gurbani .

3. They use concepts like panj vikaar( kaam, krodh, lobh ,moh ahankaar), soul etc and give them almost physical manifestations as if these things are physical people fighting you within your mind. So the concept of "Yudh" in that video may be understood in this light. I don't thin its correct interpretation of gurbani or gurmat.

4. They draw some pictures on whiteboard in the katha and explain what each part of brain is doing.For example "trikuti" is this particular area in head, "Bhavsagar" is this and "Narayan" is this. There are many more which they explain. They even tell that five takhts of sikhs are actually present within your head also. So again they have attached physical areas mind to concepts like bhavsagar. Again I don't think its right in light of gurmat.

5. I have myself heard in a diwan where Ajit Singh explained that when you reach this stage you see this colour, when you reach this stage you see this colour. Again I don't think its gurmat.

6. Gurbani says "Kotan mein Nanak kou Narayan je cheet" meaning there is one n millions who truely has merged with Lord but with this group , according to number of people that shout, cry aloud, lie down, get into fits in the diwan, there are quite a few who have merged with Lord (as you can see in that video).

7. In Tarmala's interview on sikh channel when he was asked about people getting into sort of fits and dastaars going off in that Video, he first explained how it is natural when one merges into Lord but in the same answer he then said that people who's Dastaars go off are mischiefs from other groups who want to defame them. It was very clearly self contradictory.

8. What is the need to call their katha "Akath Katha". True meaning ofthese words is that Katha which can not be said in words. I think its a marketing or branding technique.

9. What is the need to call their centre Brahm Gyan University. It again marketing or branding technique.

10. Again in that interview on sikh channel Tarmala explained that they don't give Brahm Gyani certificate. They just certify that people have done 1 or two years course their and have had "Shabad-Surat da mel" (merging into the lord). Well I though only Brahm Gyanis merge into Lord. So those statements are self contradicting again.

11. Since they do certain things ( as mentioned above) according to Gurmat and quote from Gurbani quite a lot, and do simran, its very hard for people with no or limited knowledge of sikhi to understand what they are getting into.

12. I have attended lot of AKJ samagams and their simran and people going into "vairaag" is totally different . They don't have few dozen of people in same room having reached "dasam duar".

13. Tarmala said in that interview that people should do simran instead of criticising them because when you criticise someone you criticise God in him. Well with that logic we should not critizise what happened in "kahan Dhesian" recently where people were dancing infront of SGGS and with that logic anybody can keep doing anything in front of SGGS.

14. I don't know why sikh channel wants to get into something like this, but as someone said it could very well be their lack of knowledge about thisgroup combined for their need of funds.

15. I think coventry gurdwara committe needs to explain why they support them.

Please forgive if my understanding is wrong or if I have hurt someone.

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