Can Other Jathas Be Authentic

[Guest jathasingh]

while reading some posts on the forum. i wanted to know if only a jatha that traces itself back to the Gurus time would be considered authentic like the four sikh orders udasi sawapanthi nihang nirmal. other jathas like akj or moderen ones wont be authentic because they can't trace there jathadar or vidya back to the Gurus time. want to know why wouldnt a modern day jatha be considered same as the four order.

[jhooldenishan]

I would say that only Khalsa Panth is our true jatha. We need to join Khalsa Panth and fight the common enemy rather than splitting ourselves in other jathas that most of the time only divide us.

[Guest Truth]

Heres something you may learn after some years of researcb and spending time with Gursikhs of all different backgrounds:

The variations and differences in Rehat Maryada is huge. Each Jatha has its own views and traditions on everything going all the way down to the way to have an Ishnaan or the way to go to the toilet. There are 1000s of differences on every part of life for how a Sikh should act. Even within the Puratan Sampardas, there are variations on the core principles of the exact format of various Banis or conducting the Amrit Sanchar.

The reality is any Jathebandi claiming to have a tradition directly from Guru Sahib's time is a shaky claim. There is little historical evidence for it and even if a Jatha can trace back a lineage, it does not mean that thoughts, ideas and ways of living do not change. One can look at any Jathebandi and see obvious changes even over the last 50 years - never mind 300. Many groups such as the Masands were started directly by Guru Sahib Themselves but were later destroyed by Guru Sahib as they had changed and become different to what they were originally intended.

You will find a minority Gurmukhs all major Jathebandia and they all have the same thing in common - strict Amritvela, Naam Bani and daily discipline. These are things any Amritdhari can do if they put their mind to it and have good past Karams. In the same way, you will find the majority of followers in the Jatha do not do these things properly and end up trying to promote their own tribe to make themselves feel special or "chosen" by Guru Sahib as a true Sikh.

The reality is the only Sikh who is special to Guru Sahib is one who humbly does as much Naam Bani as possible and follows as much Rehat as they can can.

[Singhstah]

Our Guru is here right now, not a figure of the past. Anyone who joins with the shabad guru and has taken khande di pahul from Panj Pyare is a direct disciple of the Satguru. That is all the lineage needed.

Ironically, the above can't really be said for udasi who don't even take amrit and grow jatta (dreadlocks), how they can be considered more authentic Sikhs than anyone Amritdhari Gursikh from any jatha be it 'modern' or whatever is beyond me. Udasis use idols and pray to shiva.

Not all Nirmale even take amrit, or if they do they don't wear all kakkars such as a Kirpan, and they are more joined on to Vedas than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj!

Sevapanthi I don't know much about except they did not even used to take khande di pahul until modern times, this can not be gurmat. I do know that they do now take khande di pahul which is great.

Nihangs do jhatka of goats and drink copious amounts of bhang- I think that says it all, there is no way either of these are from Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. Not to attack nihangs but there are MANY different thoughts in Nihang maryada that are unbelievably against Sikh teaching. Eg. in amrit sanchars so called lower castes are given amrit SEPERATELY from so called higher castes.There is no way this can be traced back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Actual elements of puraatan gursikhi rehat actually from Guru Sahib which are greatly lacking in the above are larivar saroop of bani, sarbloh bibek rehat, these were both indisputable elements of puratan gursikhi. If someone claims to trace back to dashmesh pita and does not have either of these than that claim is either extremely questionable or simply that their might be a link through people but the practices have certainly changed from what Guru Sahib gave.

So when these groups claim that through a line of people they are traced back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, what is more important to see,is do the practices carried out by these groups trace by to Guru Ji? Do they act according to Gurbani or do they do something else?

Forget lineage of people, see if the actions are Gurmat or not, regardless of group. What is called a 'modern' group may be practicing more gurmat than anyone else if they have joined themselves to Gurbani, naam and the rehat they were blessed with by panj pyare..

Remember in the 19th century it took a new group, the singh sabha movement, not these 'old' ones, to save sikhi from being enguled into hinduism.

[Kamaljit_Kaur]

Our Guru is here right now, not a figure of the past. Anyone who joins with the shabad guru and has taken khande di pahul from Panj Pyare is a direct disciple of the Satguru. That is all the lineage needed.

Ironically, the above can't really be said for udasi who don't even take amrit and grow jatta (dreadlocks), how they can be considered more authentic Sikhs than anyone Amritdhari Gursikh from any jatha be it 'modern' or whatever is beyond me. Udasis use idols and pray to shiva.

Not all Nirmale even take amrit, or if they do they don't wear all kakkars such as a Kirpan, and they are more joined on to Vedas than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj!

Sevapanthi I don't know much about except they did not even used to take khande di pahul until modern times, this can not be gurmat. I do know that they do now take khande di pahul which is great.

Nihangs do jhatka of goats and drink copious amounts of bhang- I think that says it all, there is no way either of these are from Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. Not to attack nihangs but there are MANY different thoughts in Nihang maryada that are unbelievably against Sikh teaching. Eg. in amrit sanchars so called lower castes are given amrit SEPERATELY from so called higher castes.There is no way this can be traced back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Actual elements of puraatan gursikhi rehat actually from Guru Sahib which are greatly lacking in the above are larivar saroop of bani, sarbloh bibek rehat, these were both indisputable elements of puratan gursikhi. If someone claims to trace back to dashmesh pita and does not have either of these than that claim is either extremely questionable or simply that their might be a link through people but the practices have certainly changed from what Guru Sahib gave.

So when these groups claim that through a line of people they are traced back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, what is more important to see,is do the practices carried out by these groups trace by to Guru Ji? Do they act according to Gurbani or do they do something else?

Forget lineage of people, see if the actions are Gurmat or not, regardless of group. What is called a 'modern' group may be practicing more gurmat than anyone else if they have joined themselves to Gurbani, naam and the rehat they were blessed with by panj pyare..

Remember in the 19th century it took a new group, the singh sabha movement, not these 'old' ones, to save sikhi from being enguled into hinduism.

Veer Jee, I can assure you that not all Nihangs do jhatka or bhang, this can be confirmed by almost all of the Jathedaars of the Nihang Dals/Misls i.e. Baba Nihaal Singh Jee, Baba Tarlok Singh Jee, etc ... And where have you seen or heard that Amrith Sanchaars are given separately in accordance to caste???!!!

[HDSH]

Yep, just keep dividing the path even more by bringing up such issues :dry2:

[Bundha]

There is more that unites us then divides us.

We should focus on what we have in common and play to our strengths, there will always be differences in all groups but let us focus on what we have in common - Amritwela, rehit, Naam, simran, love of our Guru, love of our fellow Sikhs, abandonment of caste.

[Mandela]

while reading some posts on the forum. i wanted to know if only a jatha that traces itself back to the Gurus time would be considered authentic like the four sikh orders udasi sawapanthi nihang nirmal. other jathas like akj or moderen ones wont be authentic because they can't trace there jathadar or vidya back to the Gurus time. want to know why wouldnt a modern day jatha be considered same as the four order.

Mandela thinks you are a Govt. Agent sent to divide us on Sikh Sangat. Shame on you and your mother.

[jassa]

Nihangs do jhatka of goats and drink copious amounts of bhang- I think that says it all, there is no way either of these are from Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. Not to attack nihangs but there are MANY different thoughts in Nihang maryada that are unbelievably against Sikh teaching. Eg. in amrit sanchars so called lower castes are given amrit SEPERATELY from so called higher castes.There is no way this can be traced back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

U cant use "sikh teachings" here but it may be against your views. This is the problem with jathebandis that my jathas views are only sikh views and they bypass every thing even akal takth sahib mareyada. The very day in amrit sanchar at akal takth sahib they say dont eat any maas then it would be against sikh mareyada. Till that day no matter how is it promoted it would be just a jathas thought. Just think about are not such comments increase the confusion among sikhs.

There are no seprate amrit sanchars only one batta is made but yes they use to ask your caste before giving amrit for two reasons they dont give amrit to chandals (those who question it must read sri sarbloh granth in which guru sahib kept chandals out they can be sikhs but not singhs) and second is as they say the first person the stand for guru sahib was a Khatri give it to khatris first as one of their forefather was the first to give his head to guru and so on and this mareyada was there 30 - 40 years ago.

I can assure you that not all Nihangs do jhatka or bhang, this can be confirmed by almost all of the Jathedaars of the Nihang Dals/Misls i.e. Baba Nihaal Singh Jee, Baba Tarlok Singh Jee, etc

Come and stay with even baba nihal singhs dal you will know. Even dushera jhatka is done at harianbela.

Back to topic

No matter which jathebandi you belong if you dont progress in ur life no jathebandi can help. If you have naam simren in your pocket you dont need any jathebandi to help you out. So trackbacks to Guru sahib doesnt matter nor the jathebandis matter.

If you follow mareyada naam simren nitname seva etc you can urself track ur atma with parmatma.

[chatanga]

Nihangs do jhatka of goats and drink copious amounts of bhang- I think that says it all, there is no way either of these are from Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj.

you're right for once. They came from 6th Guru Ji, Guru Hargobind sahib Ji.