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Fix Up Singhs!


Sukhmanii
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Hi ConfusedAndFloating. I think you make a lot of great points, although I disagree with some of what you said. Since I started the thread you are referring to, I feel like a lot of your comments are directed towards me, so I will try to respond.

For a long time I've heard Singhs crying over one thing, and this finally needs to be said.

"Sikh girls don't find men with beards and turbans attractive"

"Sikh girls want clean shaven men"

"Go to India to find a decent Sikh girl who will accept your kesh"

"I think about cutting my hair so girls will like me"

What have you guys been smoking?

Firstly, how do you define "Sikh" girls? It seems that most people are actually referring to typical Punjabi kurriya, in which case, why is the word "Sikh" being thrown around? It takes A LOT more to be a Sikh of the Guru than simply being born into a Punjabi Sikh family. Punjabi and Sikh = two entirely different things, stop confusing them!!

Secondly, why do these "Sikh" men with beards and dastara want to be with these cut haired, night club type Punjabi girls? Why do they want so badly to be accepted and liked by them? It is beyond me.

I think the group of girls who are unwilling to consider marrying ANY Singh is much larger than the group of "cut haired, night club" types. I've seen plenty of matrimonials saying something along the lines of "We are looking for a non-drinker, non-smoker, religious, family-oriented groom who respects our culture. He must be clean-shaven." I've seen plenty of matrimonial profiles of girls indicating they are vegetarian and do not drink and who, based on their pictures, do not have noticeably cut hair but are nevertheless only interested in clean-shaven men. I also know of many first-hand examples of girls from fairly religious, keshdari families who are unwilling to marry sardars (this sadly includes some girls I am related to).

You are right that some of us are hypocritical and still struggle with desiring a "typically attractive" girl who obviously has no regard for our religion. I don't deny that. But my point is that there are many seemingly more traditional girls who would appear to be open to sardars who actually aren't. And that can be pretty galling.

In any case, you are right that we might be defining "Sikh girls" too liberally. Perhaps we should only define "Sikh girls" to only include girls willing to marry sardars. I know some exist. But here's the problem: when you are looking at 1% (or 2%, or whatever) of an already very small community which has a very low population density outside of Punjab, it makes it awfully hard to find anyone. And that's just to find someone open to marrying ANY sardar. There's no telling if they will actually be into you (or if you will be into them). It's natural to want to have some sort of selection when choosing a partner.

Thirdly, if you're the type of "Singh" who considers cutting your hair so some shallow girl will like you, how can you even consider yourself a Singh? Putting some girl in front of your Guru... I would never want to be with someone like you.

I can only speak for myself here, but I've never seriously considered cutting my hair. I will admit that during the darkest, most frustrating times, I've wondered how things might be easier if I did have cut hair. But when I consider how insulting that would be to our Gurus, our ancestors, and myself (I have gotten this far, after all), I know that it's something I could never feel okay about or bring myself to do. It would be like taking my dignity and throwing it in the trash. I would probably literally kill myself before I could bring myself to cut my hair.

Is it weak for me to wonder at times in an abstract sense what life would be like if I cut my hair? Sure. But it's not something I've seriously considered. I guess I'm guilty of having impure thoughts occasionally. I'm a work in progress, and will keep trying to improve myself. Maybe there are some really strong people out there who never struggle with impure thoughts. But I think your disgust might be better directed at people who actually act on such thoughts rather than people who are guilty of having such thoughts but are able collect themselves enough to never come close to acting upon them.

You guys are so deluded. Although I'm aspiring to become an amritdhari Singhni, even before I was into Sikhi I'd look at men with kesh and dastara in awe... as weird as it may seem, with cut hair and make up, I saw Singhs as higher than any other guy and I wanted to be with one. And no, I'm not from a religious amritdhari family.

There is nothing more amazing to me than the Khalsa roop. Nothing more powerful and mesmerizing than a Singh with a long beard, an akali blue dastar and baana... wow. A saint soldier.

(Of course, my image of Singhs has changed since I found out what the majority of these so called warriors are really like.)

I think it's awesome that you feel that way. That's how I feel when I look at images of the Gurus and Khalsa warriors and shaheeds. It's puzzling to me why so many people seem to have such negative images of sardars.

Anyway, I realize it's probably disappointing for you that most Singhs aren't walking around all day like invincible warriors above any feelings of doubt, despair, or anxiety. I know a lot of the emotions guys like me have expressed in this discussion make us look weak, petty, and unattractive (which is why the anonymity of the internet is appropriate for it). But perhaps you should try to think of the majority of flawed Singhs as people who are trying their best, even though they have shortcomings and often fail to live up to the idealized image of Singhs which we like to have.

It was the same a few years ago, and its the same now; my friend (cut hair, fyi) and I talking about how absolutely amazing it is, hardly having any words to describe it... daydreaming like little girls lol.

Who are you guys, and how can I contact you? (just kidding)

Seriously though, it's awesome that you guys felt that way. But do you honestly think that a large proportion of Punjabi girls feel that way? If there is some part of the world where it is common for girls to daydream about sardars, please let me know.

And no, its not a "needle in a haystack" type thing - if you're after girls who like to drink and party then what do you expect? Can you seriously complain? If you open your eyes and actually see that there are Gursikh girls who wouldn't settle for a non-Singh, then maybe you'd stop fretting over something so stupid and shallow!

Again, you're right that there are Gursikh girls who only want Singhs, but they are rare enough that it does become a "needle in a haystack" situation when you take into consideration the rest of the filtering process that takes place when finding a partner.

I'd also like to say, if you're one of these Singhs who goes out looking for attention from girls in order to feel that your beard and turban are attractive, then I wouldn't want to be with you.

I'm not someone who does this.

Real Singhs, please come forward.

Lastly, I'd like to ask why you guys fret over what your dastars look like to outsiders and girls, but you dont consider how difficult it is for Singhnia wearing dastara and growing their kesh. They're more warriors than you are, going against all social norms and causing confusion amongst the public, who don't even know Sikh girls wear turbans. Do you think the average non keshdhari boy is going to want to be with them? But do they care, or are they looking for real Singhs? Stop complaining guys.

This wasn't meant to cause offense but rather to open your eyes. One last piece of advice - Singhs, be kind and sweet to everyone you meet. Don't be judgmental, obnoxious, loud or cocky.. always strive to be the best person you can be. Obviously this applies to girls too, but I say this because briefly meeting dome nice Singhs recently impacted the way I think about Singhs (in a positive way).

You make a great point about the difficulties that women face. I agree with you 100%.

Anyway, you made a very thoughtful thread, and I'm glad you are participating in the discussion. To sum things up, I agree with you that having a whiny attitude is not the way to go out and find a partner. It is very important to have a positive attitude.

But do you think we have a legitimate concern? Do you disagree with us that this is a very serious issue in our community that, if left unchecked, will all but reduce the keshdari sardar to a historical footnote in the coming decades? Do you disagree that the proportion of non-trimming sardars in our community has dwindled dramatically in recent years? Guys like me can stop complaining, but that won't alter the reality of these very disturbing trends.

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For a long time I've heard Singhs crying over one thing, and this finally needs to be said.

"Sikh girls don't find men with beards and turbans attractive"

"Sikh girls want clean shaven men"

"Go to India to find a decent Sikh girl who will accept your kesh"

"I think about cutting my hair so girls will like me"

What have you guys been smoking?

Firstly, how do you define "Sikh" girls? It seems that most people are actually referring to typical Punjabi kurriya, in which case, why is the word "Sikh" being thrown around? It takes A LOT more to be a Sikh of the Guru than simply being born into a Punjabi Sikh family. Punjabi and Sikh = two entirely different things, stop confusing them!!

Secondly, why do these "Sikh" men with beards and dastara want to be with these cut haired, night club type Punjabi girls? Why do they want so badly to be accepted and liked by them? It is beyond me.

Thirdly, if you're the type of "Singh" who considers cutting your hair so some shallow girl will like you, how can you even consider yourself a Singh? Putting some girl in front of your Guru... I would never want to be with someone like you.

You guys are so deluded. Although I'm aspiring to become an amritdhari Singhni, even before I was into Sikhi I'd look at men with kesh and dastara in awe... as weird as it may seem, with cut hair and make up, I saw Singhs as higher than any other guy and I wanted to be with one. And no, I'm not from a religious amritdhari family.

There is nothing more amazing to me than the Khalsa roop. Nothing more powerful and mesmerizing than a Singh with a long beard, an akali blue dastar and baana... wow. A saint soldier.

(Of course, my image of Singhs has changed since I found out what the majority of these so called warriors are really like.)

It was the same a few years ago, and its the same now; my friend (cut hair, fyi) and I talking about how absolutely amazing it is, hardly having any words to describe it... daydreaming like little girls lol.

And no, its not a "needle in a haystack" type thing - if you're after girls who like to drink and party then what do you expect? Can you seriously complain? If you open your eyes and actually see that there are Gursikh girls who wouldn't settle for a non-Singh, then maybe you'd stop fretting over something so stupid and shallow!

I'd also like to say, if you're one of these Singhs who goes out looking for attention from girls in order to feel that your beard and turban are attractive, then I wouldn't want to be with you.

Real Singhs, please come forward.

Lastly, I'd like to ask why you guys fret over what your dastars look like to outsiders and girls, but you dont consider how difficult it is for Singhnia wearing dastara and growing their kesh. They're more warriors than you are, going against all social norms and causing confusion amongst the public, who don't even know Sikh girls wear turbans. Do you think the average non keshdhari boy is going to want to be with them? But do they care, or are they looking for real Singhs? Stop complaining guys.

This wasn't meant to cause offense but rather to open your eyes. One last piece of advice - Singhs, be kind and sweet to everyone you meet. Don't be judgmental, obnoxious, loud or cocky.. always strive to be the best person you can be. Obviously this applies to girls too, but I say this because briefly meeting dome nice Singhs recently impacted the way I think about Singhs (in a positive way).

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  • 3 weeks later...

I honestly believe that anyone who calls themselves a Sikh of the Guru need to have a little more faith in Him and what He may have planned. I do not to get into the debate above but if one is going to get married then He has it all planned out and ready, no planning or searching, or fretting will change anything.

The way life pans out changes thoughts and opinions but ultimately nothing anyones does, says or wants will holds any weight infront of His mehar and kirpa.

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i completely agree with californiasardar. its not only the party girls that are not with the turbaned sikhs but some prominent sikh girls are also with not only clean shaven guys but rather hindu guys.

i didn't want to point fingers at anybody but just to provide some examples for confused and floating, i will mention couple of names here. nothing personal against these sikh women but since they have earned name for themselves in the community i thought i wll start with them. i know other examples too but those people are not as active in community as these two.

First contender is Valarie kaur. Very active in interfaith dialogue and sikh issues.http://www.valariekaur.com/. Check out her website and you will see how much work she does. On the other hand if you check her facebook profile you can figure out that she is in relation with a Hindu guy called Sharat Raju. Guy looks ugly to me but thats what this gem of our religion likes. Instead of a Amritdhari Singh, she likes a clean shaven black south indian guy.

Another big contender for me is Neha Singh Gohil of Sikh coalition. She is western region director for Sikh coalition. Working great for Sikh rights in USA but married to a Hindu guy.

There are countless other examples I can give, but such girls who are born in Sikh families and stand up for Sikh rights but still end up with clean shaven guys, tells you its not the only typical party girls who have problem with turbaned Sikh boys.

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Maybe we shouldn't place so much emphasis on appearance when trying to decipher why Sikh girls seem to prefer non-Keshdhari men?

As singh1006 has pointed out above, maybe these - otherwise - decent Sikh girls are with non-Keshdari guys because these guys are better rounded individuals and have engaging personalities that appeal to these women? Maybe I'm giving these "gems" too much credit and they really don't like the turban and beard, but I like to think that if you've got it going on up there *points to brain* then an intelligent, decent girl will not ignore you.

But if all a Singh desires is the wannabe models and Indian actress types, then what do you expect but rejection?

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