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For a long time I've heard Singhs crying over one thing, and this finally needs to be said. "Sikh girls don't find men with beards and turbans attractive" "Sikh girls want clean shaven men" "Go to

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I have never seen a guy not finding a girl because of sikh appearance. In punjab its easy to find a girl for a guy with full beard then a mona and it is a fact. If not then you are looking at a wrong

Hi ConfusedAndFloating. I think you make a lot of great points, although I disagree with some of what you said. Since I started the thread you are referring to, I feel like a lot of your comments are directed towards me, so I will try to respond.

For a long time I've heard Singhs crying over one thing, and this finally needs to be said.

"Sikh girls don't find men with beards and turbans attractive"

"Sikh girls want clean shaven men"

"Go to India to find a decent Sikh girl who will accept your kesh"

"I think about cutting my hair so girls will like me"

What have you guys been smoking?

Firstly, how do you define "Sikh" girls? It seems that most people are actually referring to typical Punjabi kurriya, in which case, why is the word "Sikh" being thrown around? It takes A LOT more to be a Sikh of the Guru than simply being born into a Punjabi Sikh family. Punjabi and Sikh = two entirely different things, stop confusing them!!

Secondly, why do these "Sikh" men with beards and dastara want to be with these cut haired, night club type Punjabi girls? Why do they want so badly to be accepted and liked by them? It is beyond me.

I think the group of girls who are unwilling to consider marrying ANY Singh is much larger than the group of "cut haired, night club" types. I've seen plenty of matrimonials saying something along the lines of "We are looking for a non-drinker, non-smoker, religious, family-oriented groom who respects our culture. He must be clean-shaven." I've seen plenty of matrimonial profiles of girls indicating they are vegetarian and do not drink and who, based on their pictures, do not have noticeably cut hair but are nevertheless only interested in clean-shaven men. I also know of many first-hand examples of girls from fairly religious, keshdari families who are unwilling to marry sardars (this sadly includes some girls I am related to).

You are right that some of us are hypocritical and still struggle with desiring a "typically attractive" girl who obviously has no regard for our religion. I don't deny that. But my point is that there are many seemingly more traditional girls who would appear to be open to sardars who actually aren't. And that can be pretty galling.

In any case, you are right that we might be defining "Sikh girls" too liberally. Perhaps we should only define "Sikh girls" to only include girls willing to marry sardars. I know some exist. But here's the problem: when you are looking at 1% (or 2%, or whatever) of an already very small community which has a very low population density outside of Punjab, it makes it awfully hard to find anyone. And that's just to find someone open to marrying ANY sardar. There's no telling if they will actually be into you (or if you will be into them). It's natural to want to have some sort of selection when choosing a partner.

Thirdly, if you're the type of "Singh" who considers cutting your hair so some shallow girl will like you, how can you even consider yourself a Singh? Putting some girl in front of your Guru... I would never want to be with someone like you.

I can only speak for myself here, but I've never seriously considered cutting my hair. I will admit that during the darkest, most frustrating times, I've wondered how things might be easier if I did have cut hair. But when I consider how insulting that would be to our Gurus, our ancestors, and myself (I have gotten this far, after all), I know that it's something I could never feel okay about or bring myself to do. It would be like taking my dignity and throwing it in the trash. I would probably literally kill myself before I could bring myself to cut my hair.

Is it weak for me to wonder at times in an abstract sense what life would be like if I cut my hair? Sure. But it's not something I've seriously considered. I guess I'm guilty of having impure thoughts occasionally. I'm a work in progress, and will keep trying to improve myself. Maybe there are some really strong people out there who never struggle with impure thoughts. But I think your disgust might be better directed at people who actually act on such thoughts rather than people who are guilty of having such thoughts but are able collect themselves enough to never come close to acting upon them.

You guys are so deluded. Although I'm aspiring to become an amritdhari Singhni, even before I was into Sikhi I'd look at men with kesh and dastara in awe... as weird as it may seem, with cut hair and make up, I saw Singhs as higher than any other guy and I wanted to be with one. And no, I'm not from a religious amritdhari family.

There is nothing more amazing to me than the Khalsa roop. Nothing more powerful and mesmerizing than a Singh with a long beard, an akali blue dastar and baana... wow. A saint soldier.

(Of course, my image of Singhs has changed since I found out what the majority of these so called warriors are really like.)

I think it's awesome that you feel that way. That's how I feel when I look at images of the Gurus and Khalsa warriors and shaheeds. It's puzzling to me why so many people seem to have such negative images of sardars.

Anyway, I realize it's probably disappointing for you that most Singhs aren't walking around all day like invincible warriors above any feelings of doubt, despair, or anxiety. I know a lot of the emotions guys like me have expressed in this discussion make us look weak, petty, and unattractive (which is why the anonymity of the internet is appropriate for it). But perhaps you should try to think of the majority of flawed Singhs as people who are trying their best, even though they have shortcomings and often fail to live up to the idealized image of Singhs which we like to have.

It was the same a few years ago, and its the same now; my friend (cut hair, fyi) and I talking about how absolutely amazing it is, hardly having any words to describe it... daydreaming like little girls lol.

Who are you guys, and how can I contact you? (just kidding)

Seriously though, it's awesome that you guys felt that way. But do you honestly think that a large proportion of Punjabi girls feel that way? If there is some part of the world where it is common for girls to daydream about sardars, please let me know.

And no, its not a "needle in a haystack" type thing - if you're after girls who like to drink and party then what do you expect? Can you seriously complain? If you open your eyes and actually see that there are Gursikh girls who wouldn't settle for a non-Singh, then maybe you'd stop fretting over something so stupid and shallow!

Again, you're right that there are Gursikh girls who only want Singhs, but they are rare enough that it does become a "needle in a haystack" situation when you take into consideration the rest of the filtering process that takes place when finding a partner.

I'd also like to say, if you're one of these Singhs who goes out looking for attention from girls in order to feel that your beard and turban are attractive, then I wouldn't want to be with you.

I'm not someone who does this.

Real Singhs, please come forward.

Lastly, I'd like to ask why you guys fret over what your dastars look like to outsiders and girls, but you dont consider how difficult it is for Singhnia wearing dastara and growing their kesh. They're more warriors than you are, going against all social norms and causing confusion amongst the public, who don't even know Sikh girls wear turbans. Do you think the average non keshdhari boy is going to want to be with them? But do they care, or are they looking for real Singhs? Stop complaining guys.

This wasn't meant to cause offense but rather to open your eyes. One last piece of advice - Singhs, be kind and sweet to everyone you meet. Don't be judgmental, obnoxious, loud or cocky.. always strive to be the best person you can be. Obviously this applies to girls too, but I say this because briefly meeting dome nice Singhs recently impacted the way I think about Singhs (in a positive way).

You make a great point about the difficulties that women face. I agree with you 100%.

Anyway, you made a very thoughtful thread, and I'm glad you are participating in the discussion. To sum things up, I agree with you that having a whiny attitude is not the way to go out and find a partner. It is very important to have a positive attitude.

But do you think we have a legitimate concern? Do you disagree with us that this is a very serious issue in our community that, if left unchecked, will all but reduce the keshdari sardar to a historical footnote in the coming decades? Do you disagree that the proportion of non-trimming sardars in our community has dwindled dramatically in recent years? Guys like me can stop complaining, but that won't alter the reality of these very disturbing trends.

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I have never seen a guy not finding a girl because of sikh appearance. In punjab its easy to find a girl for a guy with full beard then a mona and it is a fact. If not then you are looking at a wrong place.

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For a long time I've heard Singhs crying over one thing, and this finally needs to be said.

"Sikh girls don't find men with beards and turbans attractive"

"Sikh girls want clean shaven men"

"Go to India to find a decent Sikh girl who will accept your kesh"

"I think about cutting my hair so girls will like me"

What have you guys been smoking?

Firstly, how do you define "Sikh" girls? It seems that most people are actually referring to typical Punjabi kurriya, in which case, why is the word "Sikh" being thrown around? It takes A LOT more to be a Sikh of the Guru than simply being born into a Punjabi Sikh family. Punjabi and Sikh = two entirely different things, stop confusing them!!

Secondly, why do these "Sikh" men with beards and dastara want to be with these cut haired, night club type Punjabi girls? Why do they want so badly to be accepted and liked by them? It is beyond me.

Thirdly, if you're the type of "Singh" who considers cutting your hair so some shallow girl will like you, how can you even consider yourself a Singh? Putting some girl in front of your Guru... I would never want to be with someone like you.

You guys are so deluded. Although I'm aspiring to become an amritdhari Singhni, even before I was into Sikhi I'd look at men with kesh and dastara in awe... as weird as it may seem, with cut hair and make up, I saw Singhs as higher than any other guy and I wanted to be with one. And no, I'm not from a religious amritdhari family.

There is nothing more amazing to me than the Khalsa roop. Nothing more powerful and mesmerizing than a Singh with a long beard, an akali blue dastar and baana... wow. A saint soldier.

(Of course, my image of Singhs has changed since I found out what the majority of these so called warriors are really like.)

It was the same a few years ago, and its the same now; my friend (cut hair, fyi) and I talking about how absolutely amazing it is, hardly having any words to describe it... daydreaming like little girls lol.

And no, its not a "needle in a haystack" type thing - if you're after girls who like to drink and party then what do you expect? Can you seriously complain? If you open your eyes and actually see that there are Gursikh girls who wouldn't settle for a non-Singh, then maybe you'd stop fretting over something so stupid and shallow!

I'd also like to say, if you're one of these Singhs who goes out looking for attention from girls in order to feel that your beard and turban are attractive, then I wouldn't want to be with you.

Real Singhs, please come forward.

Lastly, I'd like to ask why you guys fret over what your dastars look like to outsiders and girls, but you dont consider how difficult it is for Singhnia wearing dastara and growing their kesh. They're more warriors than you are, going against all social norms and causing confusion amongst the public, who don't even know Sikh girls wear turbans. Do you think the average non keshdhari boy is going to want to be with them? But do they care, or are they looking for real Singhs? Stop complaining guys.

This wasn't meant to cause offense but rather to open your eyes. One last piece of advice - Singhs, be kind and sweet to everyone you meet. Don't be judgmental, obnoxious, loud or cocky.. always strive to be the best person you can be. Obviously this applies to girls too, but I say this because briefly meeting dome nice Singhs recently impacted the way I think about Singhs (in a positive way).

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  • 3 weeks later...

I honestly believe that anyone who calls themselves a Sikh of the Guru need to have a little more faith in Him and what He may have planned. I do not to get into the debate above but if one is going to get married then He has it all planned out and ready, no planning or searching, or fretting will change anything.

The way life pans out changes thoughts and opinions but ultimately nothing anyones does, says or wants will holds any weight infront of His mehar and kirpa.

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i completely agree with californiasardar. its not only the party girls that are not with the turbaned sikhs but some prominent sikh girls are also with not only clean shaven guys but rather hindu guys.

i didn't want to point fingers at anybody but just to provide some examples for confused and floating, i will mention couple of names here. nothing personal against these sikh women but since they have earned name for themselves in the community i thought i wll start with them. i know other examples too but those people are not as active in community as these two.

First contender is Valarie kaur. Very active in interfaith dialogue and sikh issues.http://www.valariekaur.com/. Check out her website and you will see how much work she does. On the other hand if you check her facebook profile you can figure out that she is in relation with a Hindu guy called Sharat Raju. Guy looks ugly to me but thats what this gem of our religion likes. Instead of a Amritdhari Singh, she likes a clean shaven black south indian guy.

Another big contender for me is Neha Singh Gohil of Sikh coalition. She is western region director for Sikh coalition. Working great for Sikh rights in USA but married to a Hindu guy.

There are countless other examples I can give, but such girls who are born in Sikh families and stand up for Sikh rights but still end up with clean shaven guys, tells you its not the only typical party girls who have problem with turbaned Sikh boys.

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Maybe we shouldn't place so much emphasis on appearance when trying to decipher why Sikh girls seem to prefer non-Keshdhari men?

As singh1006 has pointed out above, maybe these - otherwise - decent Sikh girls are with non-Keshdari guys because these guys are better rounded individuals and have engaging personalities that appeal to these women? Maybe I'm giving these "gems" too much credit and they really don't like the turban and beard, but I like to think that if you've got it going on up there *points to brain* then an intelligent, decent girl will not ignore you.

But if all a Singh desires is the wannabe models and Indian actress types, then what do you expect but rejection?

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The way to deal with this problem is by not accepting that there is a problem, and simply to brush it over. By acknowledging the problem, you are giving further credence to it, cementing it, to the extent that it becomes a fixed unshakable belief, that Singhs are unattractive and that girls dont want to marry them.

You really have to challenge this belief in your own mind and you have to believe that the opposite is true. Otherwise, you will always carry this insecurity with you. Even when you do finally get married and have a wife, you will still be insecure that you are unattractive etc, and that can put strains on your relationship, such as jealousy when she talks to other men, or even thoughts like 'she is only with you because of your money etc'.

Everyone can tell you that you need to be confident, but in reality only you can walk through the door. You must totally disregard any examples you find of women rejecting sardars as being isolated, wierd incidents where the girl was just a wierdo and you didnt like her anyway. Focus instead on the numerous girls that have married sardars, and convince yourself that this is the norm.

Just be aware that with developing attraction, it is much easier for men than it is for women. For a woman to be deemed attractive, a big proportion of it is dependent on their looks. For men, however, a much smaller proportion is dependent on their looks. Alot is dependent on their personality, alpha male qualities, CONFIDENCE, career, values and status. Even if you are insecure about your looks/sikh saroop, which you shouldnt be, then at the very least you should radiate your other qualities.

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Just take a look at any UK Gurdwara matrimonial service listings. You will find the majority of listings for girls say looking for "clean shaven".

It's fair enough you guys can talk all you want, about guys should radiate other qualities such as personality etc... However in the punjabi community this largely will never get the chance to happen. Logically speaking in most cases you have a "bachola" middle man who will do an introduction..swap detials betrween boys and girls parents. As soon as they here the boy wears a turban etc...the discussion stops right there...They say our daughter is looking for a "clean shaven" . Theres no oppurtunity to find out what someones other qualities are.

Same goes for Gurdwara matrimonial lists, just by the description as soon as it say "turban" on it forget about it, 90% girls in that list are not looking for your critteria negotiation will never start.

I agree 100% with the comments on these threads unfortunately the majority of girls in our community can not be described as Sikh, they have very little if any knowledge on Sikhi. Even if theyre brothers, fathers, family are turban wearing sardars, theyre still looking for clean shaven marriage partners..

This is a big enough problem...in itself but consider the longer term impact, these girls are mothers of the next generation..they have no values or knowledge their kids will probably be bought up in the same way or worse.

Personally I think Gurdwara matrimonial lists should not allow the "clean shaven" category if you clearly discriminate against the Gurus Roop the image that the Guru gifted his Sikhs then why exactly should you be on a Gurdwara matrimonial list ?

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Well judging by what his posts have said, it sounds to me like he wants to find his own partner rather than go through the bachola route. Sure, if he goes through bachola route or by matrimonial list route, then he maybe refused point blank on the grounds of not being 'clean shaven'.

Personally, I think Singhs have got a better chance of finding their own partners nowadays anyway, as they have an opporunity to get to know girls and for girls to get to know them before making a desicion, rather than just being labelled as something and being rejected or accepted because of that label (ie sardar/non sardar).

I personally know of many cases, of girls who were adamant that they would never marry a kesadhari Singh, but still ended up meeting one and marrying one in the end, because, they saw them as an individual and appreciated the other qualities that they 'radiated'.

No offence, but I think the idea of not allowing the 'clean shaven' cateogory on forms is pretty ridiculous as it will only lead to misunderstandings and resentments later down the line once it is discovered that a potential suitor is kesadhari. You cant punish people for their opinions and preferences. It will backfire, and just create an even bigger divide in the community. But what you can do is change yourself and increase your own chances of finding a partner

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The idea of not having a clean-shaven category for Gurdwaras means by default everyone on the list is a keshadhari. If your not looking for a keshadhari then the Gurdwara should advise to use other sources.

The Gurdwaras are supposed to join people with akal puraks and his roop. In effect theyre sending out the wrong message theyre in effect saying that discriminating against the Gurus roop is acceptable.

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though it may be small consolation, it is written in our karams who we will marry. some get married earlier, some later. in my case, my marriage date was set at age 30. but then again, i had insanely high standards and was not well networked due to coming into sikhi at a much later age.

your best bet is to do seva in sikh organisations or at the gurdwara as parents etc will notice you, go to youth group meeting ssa meetings, and focus on building yourself up. when people focus too much on getting a partner they worry a lot, instead shift the focus to building up your own value. work out, take up martial arts, do some hobby you're interested in, and focus on your education. and career. i would suggest also focusing on bani b/c it will give you peace of mind, poise, and confidence. these kinds of qualities do radiate out to others. the opportunities will come to you, and you will be better positioned to take advantage of them. and btw, plenty of sikh girls who are not yet gursikh are interested in sardars, not the majority, but still, more than enough. it's just a matter of finding them and of building up your own confidence and cachet.

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