Dastar Day Made It On The Bbc News

[SinghWarrior]

I've raised some very basic questions. I don't claim to know any answers. The way things have panned out over the last 2 months, I doubt Sikh Channel thought about them, nor did Sangat TV. I'm not suggesting D-Day was a flop - it seems to have been a success as it galvanized awareness of the issue. But at what cost? Disunity amongst our media and in our Panth?

How influential will D-Day ultimately have been in swaying politicians to our cause? Will it have been counterproductive? Were the means employed proportionate to achieve the desired outcome, assuming the desired outcome was achieved? What was the desired outcome?

The latter 4 questions - you have to rely on the experience of those actually having the discussions with the politicians. Sikh Channel are not qualified to make those judgements, and they chose not to follow the advice of those that were having the political discussions.

The whole point of making the Sikh Council UK was that you would have a representative and qualified group of people leading on these decisions for the Panth. Too often in the past you have had one Jatha/group that has taken actions without consulting the wider Panth - for example, we have a precedent against us (dastaar case) in the European Court of Human Rights on a case that was legally very weak. This will stand against us forever. Quite literally, we have shot ourselves there in the foot, and this is a hindrance to future legal actions. This case was led by an individual with limited support without consulting the wider Panth.

As an already small community, we can only truly be effective if we are united. With this feeling of empowerment from D-Day, I hope we work to further strengthen and participate in our existing institution (SCUK) so that we can successful and strategic in the future!

[Singh559]

Good job !! Setting the standard!

[GurSa Singh]

In all truth, the Sikh Community haven't got a clue who the SCUK are. There were some uncles at D Day who were interpretting the whole screw up on Sangat TV as "Khalistani Extremist Federation" wanting power again, that's why alot of different members of the sangat attended D Day. Don't the jathebhandi's get it yet? Are they going to keep blaming the sangat or Sikh Channel? It was a sign of defiance by the Sikh community who thought they were being dictated to on TV by the same people who they have seen cause problems in our Gurdwaras over the last 30 years. These are the misinterpretations out there, which SCUK or the Feds are not addressing. The problem is the SCUK just look like another rogue group who have their own interests at heart not the community's. It's still not recognised as a name let alone an institute.

SCUK can sit on desks generating strategies all day but they struggling at the implementation stage which means the current model needs working. There are outlets such as 2 Sikh channels, several Sikh radio stations, several Sikh newspapers/publications, 300 plus Gurdwaras, samagams, rehansabhais monthly/annual events which need to be maximised.

Actions speak louder than words and unfortunate to any good work SCUK has already done, the aunties, uncles, kids aren't aware of it. The Midlands Prabhandak stronghold needs to be broken and SCUK need to actively attract Sikhs from the community who don't carry any baggage. Otherwise it's only a matter of time when we have another divided event like this.

These are just my personal opinions. Whoever wishes to crucify me for them is welcome to.

[SinghWarrior]

Fair comment GurSa Singh but we, as "Panth-Dardi" next generation Sikhs, will have to get involved ourselves to resolve these issues. We can't blame the elders when there is a vacuum and no-one is willing to step in. The status quo will continue unless others make a conscious effort to move things forward. That's the bottom up approach.

On the other hand, SCUK need to really seek out and involve the naujawaan that can make a real difference - the top down approach.

We desperately need both.

[punjab5]

I've raised some very basic questions. I don't claim to know any answers. The way things have panned out over the last 2 months, I doubt Sikh Channel thought about them, nor did Sangat TV. I'm not suggesting D-Day was a flop - it seems to have been a success as it galvanized awareness of the issue. But at what cost? Disunity amongst our media and in our Panth?

How influential will D-Day ultimately have been in swaying politicians to our cause? Will it have been counterproductive? Were the means employed proportionate to achieve the desired outcome, assuming the desired outcome was achieved? What was the desired outcome?

The latter 4 questions - you have to rely on the experience of those actually having the discussions with the politicians. Sikh Channel are not qualified to make those judgements, and they chose not to follow the advice of those that were having the political discussions.

The whole point of making the Sikh Council UK was that you would have a representative and qualified group of people leading on these decisions for the Panth. Too often in the past you have had one Jatha/group that has taken actions without consulting the wider Panth - for example, we have a precedent against us (dastaar case) in the European Court of Human Rights on a case that was legally very weak. This will stand against us forever. Quite literally, we have shot ourselves there in the foot, and this is a hindrance to future legal actions. This case was led by an individual with limited support without consulting the wider Panth.

As an already small community, we can only truly be effective if we are united. With this feeling of empowerment from D-Day, I hope we work to further strengthen and participate in our existing institution (SCUK) so that we can successful and strategic in the future!

If we are to look inwardly, it was an event which empowered the sangat. Unfortunatley the approach taken by SC, divided rather than united the Sikhs. SC nor any other organistion can claim to represent the panth. Where SC went wrong was that they should have worked with those that were currently involved in working with the Government and other Institutions to ensure that the protest or awarness day was part of the overall strategy to tackle this issue.

Looking outwardly

Great Media coverage, good awareness raising.

Politically-

Apparently a letter (i presume this is what Jagtar is saying), was wrtiiten to the Italian Embassy in London by Sikh Channel on behalf of the UK Sikh community, saying that they are organising a demonstration. This despite the fact that the SCUK had also written to the Italian Embassy a couple of months earlier and were in negotitations with them. It seems that the Otalians were not plaese with the demonstration nor the contents of the SC letter, however the SCUK reps, managed to say it was not a demo but an awarness raising day.

At the event, a memorandum (would be good if SC could share), was given on behalf of SC to the Britsih Government expressing concerns over the lack of support. Whis is ironic in that we have all heard on the media, what actions the British Government is taking, i.e. have written to all EU transport Ministers etc. This memo, would highlight to the British Government that there is no unity in the Sikh community as we are talking to some key organisations, who as it would seem do not represent all the Sikhs, here is an another group who want to be at the table. Thus totally undermining existing organistion speaking to the Government.There predictable answer would be, please speak to your own Sikh organisations who we have been dealing with, so that they can tell you what we have been doing. This makes the Sikh community look totally unprofessional,

A memo to the Italians that they are not doing enough, even though the Sikhs had a meeting with them on Friday and a meeting arranged for Monday in Rome, would also look totally unprofessional.

So work it out, maybe good in the short term but longer term ???

[Aman0001]

SinghWarrior and Punjab5 - Your comments are bang on.

We have a TV channel (Sikh Channel) writing to the Italian embassy about a demo. I mean how many tv channels organise demos? This completely undermined all the work that the SCUK were doing wih the Italians as they now dont know which body actually represents the Sikhs.

[Angrez]

Rather than always putting a negative spin on everything. The fact is is the Dastaar Day had a visible impact, and made people realise that it is a serious issue which sikhs are concerned about. Having one to one meetings is good and has a purpose, but sometimes extra momentum and urgency can be portrayed by awareness days.

Its opened peoples eyes. I'm sure the Italian ministers were taken by surprise by the numbers that turned up in Rome. I also think they realise that thousands of UK sikhs are suporting them. I applaud the sangat who made the effort to rise above the petty politics and all the obstacles to make it a success.

Its also refreshing to see the new faces in the SCUK who are now taking this forward. Good to see Bhai Gurmail Singh at the Dastaar Day and also the new faces on the Sikh Channel last night. They made more sense and seemed to be able to articulate the ponts well.

Lets not get too hung up as to who got there first and who started this or that . Why cant we all accept where we are and work together and move forward. This is not a battle that will be resolved overnight.

The media can be used to lead campaigns just look at two recent examples

Guardian exposed the phone hacking scandal and the Telegraph exposed the MP expenses.

We also have to remember that the Sikh Media is more of a community media and should take up issues affecting the community. Why do we always critcise. If someone has done good then we should support them. Be it Sangat TV or Sikh Channel. Jathebandia have to understand how to make best use of media and also how to reach out to the grass roots level. We have all seen how disconnected the jathebandia are from the average sikh on the street.

[Paneer Monster]

....... both sides have said the same things again and again.....

why cant the anti dastar brigade drop it!! they keep coming on here with new ids and stuff in a pathetic attempt to make their lame points stronger.... they keep poking at the same points again and again... theyre not going to get tired of this..... they want conflict...

now what can be said that hasnt been said already?.... - thats my point. some sangat are for and some against, get over it. forget it. its nothing to fight over about for centries after its finished.

half of me thinks this whole dastar day thing was a diversation to get our minds off what happened in punjab with the sgpc elections and all the beadbi.....

now quit bangin on about how wrong dastar day was... its in the past ... move foward....

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

No one is anti-dastaar, especially Amritdharis.

Please do not refer to 'anti-dastaar brigade'.

All are doing what they think is right to move forward the campaign for respect for the dastaar.

We all make mistakes, the media, organisations, individuals - we need to move on.

The media has a critical role to move away from the negativity and ensure those that appear do not dwell on what divides us, but what unites us.

Get responsible people on Tv, not those with personal or organisation grudges - or the Sangat will start to switch off in big numbers.

[Southall Youth]

Well all those oldies on Sangat TV doing anti d day programmes have all lost credibility along with the channel