Q&A With Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale

[Jonny101]

I think when a Sikh says Krishan is an Avtar of Vaheguru he should be clear as to what type of avtar. About a year ago I was listening to Giani Takhur Singh jee's Japji Sahib katha. Near the starting he mentions the many different types of Avtars. The ultimate of those Avtars was in the form of Guru Sahib who took birth as Guru Nanak Dev Jee. Then there are lower levels of Avtars such as Krishan. Even great GurSikhs are sent by Guru Jee and they are called Nit-Avtars. All of these Avtars with their various levels come down to earth for the protection of Dharm.

As for havans, I don't think Guru Jee performed havans or worshiped Shakti. Havans seem to have started at a later date and seem like an innovation that has crept up within the Sikhs if Sikhs perform this.

[osingh]

Here is Gurbani telling us the value of rituals like havan compared to Naam:

ਤਨੁ ਬੈਸੰਤਰਿ ਹੋਮੀਐ ਇਕ ਰਤੀ ਤੋਲਿ ਕਟਾਇ ॥ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਧਾ ਜੇ ਕਰੀ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਜਲਾਇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਤੁਲਿ ਨ ਪੁਜਈ ਜੇ ਲਖ ਕੋਟੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇ ॥੨॥

ਜੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਰੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਕੱਟ ਕੱਟ ਕੇ ਇਕ ਇਕ ਰੱਤੀ ਭਰ ਤੋਲ ਤੋਲ ਕੇ ਅੱਗ ਵਿਚ ਹਵਨ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਜਾਏ, ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਰੀਰ ਤੇ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਹਵਨ ਦੀ ਸਾਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਬਣਾ ਦਿਆਂ ਤੇ ਹਰ ਰੋਜ਼ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਅੱਗ ਵਿਚ ਸਾੜਾਂ, ਜੇ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ ਹੋਰ ਲੱਖਾਂ ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਕਰਮ ਕੀਤੇ ਜਾਣ, ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਕੋਈ ਕਰਮ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਤਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਸਕਦਾ।੨।

If I were to cut my sareer (body) into tiny pieces and do havan by putting it (my body) into the fire. If I made my body and mind into the wood used for havan and burn them over and over (andin) in the fire, if i were to do these actions millions of times still they could never reach the level of Naam

Vaah! Prof. Sahib Singh ji's arth(meaning) of this bani is amazing.

Gurbani is our Guru and we bow our head to the bachans (intructions) of bani. Over and over gurbani tells us that Naam is the highest of actions. Guru Nanak dev ji rejected the janeu (sacred thread) of Hinduism. These rituals cannot take us to meet our beloved preetam pyara.

Please use Gurbani to validate your claims.

[mohinder pal]

What about the Jot in Gurudwara Sheehdan Sahib in Amritsar. you'll say its manmat or what???

[SantLUCIFER]

Havan is not some cult thing or Hindu thing. It was there in Sikh tradition long back. Even guru gobind singh ji did havan when Shakti was worshipped for Khalsa. Havan is nothing but reciting of Gurbani like CHANDI DI VAAR,SUKHMANI SAHIB,URGARDANTI,CHANDI CHARITAR,ASA DI VAAR, JAPJI sAHIB,Complete ANAND SAHIB in Amritwela(before sunrise) by few Gursikhs infront of SGGSJI or lighting Jot.

But We sikhs donot say."We are doing Havan" but "we are doing Nitnem" Becuase emphasis is on GURBANI recitation and Darshan of SGGSJI nothing else.

You sound insane. The Lord Guru Gobind Singh worshipped Shakti? lol you're obviously not of the Sikh thought.

[SantLUCIFER]

What about the Jot in Gurudwara Sheehdan Sahib in Amritsar. you'll say its manmat or what???

A jot is worlds apart from a Havan! A jot is also lit in the Churches, Synagogues.

[mohinder pal]

Oh Really, You didnot know I am insane.

Pritham Bhaguti Simar Ke.

EKA MAI JUGAT VEHAI TIN CHELE PARVAAN...

A jot is worlds apart from a Havan! A jot is also lit in the Churches, Synagogues.

What about the Jot inside us?

[SantLUCIFER]

Oh Really, You didnot know I am insane.

Pritham Bhaguti Simar Ke.

EKA MAI JUGAT VEHAI TIN CHELE PARVAAN...

What about the Jot inside us?

What about it?

[N30S1NGH]

Ok lets get few things straight:

1. Sikhi version of Havan is jot with additional smagri (mentioned in attachment along with most important thing which is gurbani which is also mentioned in the attachment). Source- Bhannu Parkash page-65 uploaded by prabhjot singh of sikhsangat.com

2. Purpose of havan is exactly same as purpose of jot which is attracting devi/devta's in sikhi context- attracting(asking for their blessing) shaheed singhs (which is given same gatti as other divine figures (angels in christianity, devta's in hinduism). I am sorry to burst your bubble, shaheed souls will appear in whichever form as you perceive it to be, sarbloh gates with bibeki shaheed singhs division in the divinity is not gospel reality but part of meta reality..it does not work like that..what you perceive, that's what you will see in divinity, gurbani supports meta reality (read the vichar between kulbir singh and i on gurmatbibek on this).....everyone there is a sevadar of nirankar, following nirankar hukam.

3. Speaking from historical context, havan mentioned below used to be performed in taksal puratan times, read this thread - http://www.sikhaware...walae-in-the-uk confirmed by sant harnam singh bhindranwale in during bhindran takal and prior to bhindran taksal.

Now going to princess2005 post,

Thanks for the long rant. It's funny how you mentioned don't believe in technalities of things, whereas inspired figure you quote - bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji beleived in exactly that ( focus intensily on different stages of naam abhyas). I don't know about you , but youths seriously lack understanding of sikh theology, you may like to stick with hyper-ventilation only may be uditi duniya as ultimate sikh book, but most of people i have spoken to love to explore deep sikh theology and do abhyaas after understanding concept of nirgun and sargun. Whilst its not neccessary for pendu woman who simply does naam jap to study deep sikh theology in order to get mukhti. But understanding sikh theology, atma-paratma relationship definitely helps in bhagti marg. So you can stick to basics, guru maharaj will do kirpa without any doubt. But If i can request you to stop ridiculing others following slightly different marg than you.

[HDSH]

This has gone way off topic, it was such an informative thread but of course members have to ruin it with their mindless mumbo jumbo. You have a bharm gyani telling you things yet you choose to analyze what they are saying?!

Topic closed, if I get time I will go through all the posts and remove all off topic replies.