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Why Are Sikhs Hypocrites?


steelman
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pedrorizzo - tell me when you was born in this world did you already know who was going to be your mother and father ? or did you read some comic book before you came to this earth.

The play of the world is in God's hand - yes he has the power to give Khalsa gifted humans such as Sant Jarnail Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh -- and will do so again -- don't try to be a judge here with your little mind reading modern history - there 's more to your modern ways then you will ever know. If you are a Sikh before you bow down to SGGS ensure you to apologize for remarks that you have made here -

Admins -- where are you?

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pedrorizzo - tell me when you was born in this world did you already know who was going to be your mother and father ? or did you read some comic book before you came to this earth.

The play of the world is in God's hand - yes he has the power to give Khalsa gifted humans such as Sant Jarnail Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh -- and will do so again -- don't try to be a judge here with your little mind reading modern history - there 's more to your modern ways then you will ever know. If you are a Sikh before you bow down to SGGS ensure you to apologize for remarks that you have made here -

Admins -- where are you?

I dont really understand the points that you are trying to make. I dont feel like I have dissed either of these two great Sikhs. All I have done is given my own opinion on what leadership/power is, and how that may, in a real world apply to Sikhs. You may also one day learn that there is more at play than your own simplistic comic book version of events. At the end of the day you and I are approaching this topic form two totally different viewpoints. I dont really have a problem with you having your opinion, after all this is a forum, and that is what debate is supposed to be all about.

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Well then according to your definition, there are no Sikhs on this planet, or very very few in number. And that most likely means that you and I are not Sikhs either doesnt it?

And I have read your version of history in your post. Frankly, it is a comic book version that they teach kids in Punjabi school. Personally, I like to study history in a bit more depth and try and draw analysis from it regarding how it might be relevant in modern times.

If that is a comic book version of history, what are you own indepth views then? And what have you learnt that makes you consider our history comical? Please do enlighten the readers here with your serious knowledge.

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People are responsible for what they type. They are not responsible for how others interpret it.

People need to get off their high horses. If you cant type your points coherently or in passable english, it's little wonder you cant understand Pedrorizzo's points.

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If that is a comic book version of history, what are you own indepth views then? And what have you learnt that makes you consider our history comical? Please do enlighten the readers here with your serious knowledge.

Despite your flippant tone, I will try and answer your question, and help you understand where I am coming from, though I suspect that I will struggle. Regarding my views on this topic, just read my initial post, there is not really a lot for me to add on there.

When I use the word 'comic' I dont mean 'comical' as in funny. I mean that Sikh history/politics/history and even religion to a certain extent always seem to be taught in a very simplistic and over-glorified manner.

I feel that the problem with this is that whilst it might make us feel good/confident etc, in the same way as say listening to dhadi does, it is not always the most in-depth way of understanding ourselves and our experience. It actually becomes a hindrance for true analysis to take place. In order to do that we have to keep a level of objectivity and attempt to understand how other communities or a non-Sikh would view us. Only then can we make progress. I feel that Sikhs as a community keep falling into the same cycles over and over again throughout history. Unless we try the process that I am suggesting, I think that we will continue to have the same problems.

We were talking earlier about leadership. What I was trying to explain in my posts was how Sikh power and leadership had emerged in the past and how it may emerge in the future, realistically. Some people will be content with the spiritual explanation that all 'great leaders' are simply sent by Akal Purakh when the time is right. I dont have a problem with this and ultimately, Gurbani teaches this to be true.

Me personally, I like to try and think laterally, and see how this might manifest itself in the flesh and/or in reality. I appreciate that many of the guys on this forum are deeply spiritual/religious people and maybe dont like academics or academic style explanations. You yourself may just dismiss me as a coconut/gorafied etc..

but in all honesty, I am just trying to help and raise the intellectual level of the debate.

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In this day and age, if a leader like Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was to emerge, it is probable that most people wouldnt listen to him because most Sikhs dont seem to believe that Sikhi is under threat enough. For example, If you take a look at someone like Baljit Singh Daduwal, he uses a similar style of rhetoric that Jarnail Singh used to use but who listens to him? Not many people to be honest.

However, if things got really bad in Punjab, or more importantly, they were perceived to get really bad in Punjab amongst the mass populace, its quite possible that people would flock to someone like him and listen to what he had to say.

Many Sikhs, when Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa woke them up, were also saying they are not under threat or oppressed. Or it was the case of i know i am oppressed, but can't do anything myself and im not oppressed as my neighbor, so keep living as is. The latter was more common in punjab. But when Sant ji spoke up for the oppressed, they suddenly started waking up. Many saw Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj through Sant ji's words and like Satguru says, giddar into lions were created. No one can be compared to Sant ji, only Gurmukhs like Baba Deep Singh are seen in the same way. Bhai Baljit Singh Daduwal is no way comparable to Sant ji. The person lacking dharma will say Sant ji had a certain style and ways to use words to pull people or the circumstance was the reason. But this is not true. Sant ji never had a certain style, it was his jeevan that pulled people in. Sant ji in every way is the creation of Shabad Guru (Sant ji became one with Gurbani). The atma of a person is naturally searching for Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj, but many ignore this infinite bliss and attach themselves to temporarily forms of "bliss". And once a person came close to the presence of Sant ji, their atma (soul) was naturally pulled toward Sant ji. Sant ji's speeches still have similar effect on people and many have become Amritdharis and taken on the Gursikhs jeevan, just from his speeches. Sant ji was loved by the Sikhs because he lives and breaths Sikhi. Every part of Sant ji wished well for all of the humans and for complete peace. Whether you were poor, rich, consider low caste, Sant ji treated you with love, respect, and heard your pains. Sant ji from his speeches has given the message to the Sikhs that everyone must become Guru ka Sikh. These instructions are no different than Gurbani and if followed, a Sikh can reach many heights spiritually and start a movement of peace and love, similar to Sant ji. Without a high jeevan, a person can say anything and people will listen, but they will forget. With Sant ji, those that listened, they never forgot and today we call them Shaheed Singhs of 1980s and 1990s.

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but in all honesty, I am just trying to help and raise the intellectual level of the debate.

What other intellectual level can be higher than understanding Gurbani and becoming one with it, where you bring peace and love to the world? No doubt the secular so called academics will refer to secular knowledge higher, but it comes down to who do you consider to be higher, Gurbani, which tells us to abandon other intellectual pursuits and accept the faith, love, and devoition for Gurbani as the highest intellect or your academics that are made of clay and are full of ego till there last dying day. Also before you go on about how Gurmukhs tell us not to learn about secular ways and call us ignorant in your own words. Gurmukhs have specifically taught us to learn about the world, but we learn it in a different manner. We learn it in the manner where Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj has taught us. The same knowledge is attained by Sikhs, yet learn it through Guru Grace. A normal person wouldn't be able to tell the difference when learning it, but when Gurmukhs speak of the world, then the Guru's Grace shows and normal humans are naturally pulled toward the lesson. Secular academics battle with the mind and go against Gurbani, where they completely ignore the spiritual side and as Gurbani says, without spiritual wisdom all is lossed and there is no wisdom.

So if you believe secular academic intellectual level is what is needed, then more power to you, but don't say Satguru approves of this kind of thinking.

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What other intellectual level can be higher than understanding Gurbani and becoming one with it, where you bring peace and love to the world? No doubt the secular so called academics will refer to secular knowledge higher, but it comes down to who do you consider to be higher, Gurbani, which tells us to abandon other intellectual pursuits and accept the faith, love, and devoition for Gurbani as the highest intellect or your academics that are made of clay and are full of ego till there last dying day. Also before you go on about how Gurmukhs tell us not to learn about secular ways and call us ignorant in your own words. Gurmukhs have specifically taught us to learn about the world, but we learn it in a different manner. We learn it in the manner where Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj has taught us. The same knowledge is attained by Sikhs, yet learn it through Guru Grace. A normal person wouldn't be able to tell the difference when learning it, but when Gurmukhs speak of the world, then the Guru's Grace shows and normal humans are naturally pulled toward the lesson. Secular academics battle with the mind and go against Gurbani, where they completely ignore the spiritual side and as Gurbani says, without spiritual wisdom all is lossed and there is no wisdom.

So if you believe secular academic intellectual level is what is needed, then more power to you, but don't say Satguru approves of this kind of thinking.

I'm pretty certain that Satguru doesnt discourage this kind of thinking. After all, if we all agreed with your view point, we would all be living in caves, wearing nothing and throwing spears. I can appreciate that 'worldly knowledge' is of no importance to you and that it is not really your thing. I havent got a problem with that. However, attempting to stop progress by not allowing people who want to think creatively to do their thing is just downright ridiculous. Everyone has their place and role within the panth... we need parchariks, soldiers, sewadars, politicans, thinkers, doctors... we need everybody. Like I said, if you yourself prefer to just do your paath and focus inwardly on your jeevan, then I give you props. However, if you think that this is all that is required for the panth, and broadly speaking for the rest of the world to survive, then I would say that you are pretty deluded.

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I'm pretty certain that Satguru doesnt discourage this kind of thinking. After all, if we all agreed with your view point, we would all be living in caves, wearing nothing and throwing spears. I can appreciate that 'worldly knowledge' is of no importance to you and that it is not really your thing. I havent got a problem with that. However, attempting to stop progress by not allowing people who want to think creatively to do their thing is just downright ridiculous. Everyone has their place and role within the panth... we need parchariks, soldiers, sewadars, politicans, thinkers, doctors... we need everybody. Like I said, if you yourself prefer to just do your paath and focus inwardly on your jeevan, then I give you props. However, if you think that this is all that is required for the panth, and broadly speaking for the rest of the world to survive, then I would say that you are pretty deluded.

if all the world did was paath 24/7, i think it would be a very wondrous and blessed place...

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The problem with secular view points that people present is that they completely consider spiritual wisdom (Gurbani) to be immaterial when it comes to discussing the world. It's a sad reality, but such people exist and they go to the end of the world to defend there view point. And i mostly think they put up such big of a fight because they had to go through so much trouble...years and years of school and years and years of arguing with others. Frankly, they hate it when a Gurmat point is put before them that makes a lot more sense and took a lot less time to come up with. Put yourself in their shoes, you'd be in rage because all the time you just wasted and some youth just showed you off. I feel bad for these secual fantatics.

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