Sikh Channel Allowing Bani To Be Changed

[KhalistaniGunMan]

Yes, if one only practices yoga and does mudras then they cannot obtain God. However if all actions even yoga are combined with gurbani or naam then all actions are of value. I watched some of this on sikh channel and when she was doing the mudra she was reciting jaap sahib (gyatri mantar) gobinday mukunday udaaray apaaray hariang kariang nirnamay akamay. Those are God's name so she was remembering and attuning to the truth.

Uttam Singh Ji, my aim is to highlight how there are differences in the panth and why we shouldn't be attacking others who stand out so I used an e.g. of akj and 3ho. What I meant when I said Guru ji didn't give naam like this was if you read puratan sources or talk to ginai Thakur singh damdami taksaal, Sant Jagjit Singh harokwal and even Sant ajit singh hansali you will notice that nowhere in history did guru ji give naam in that style to the panj pyarea. Yes there is saas graas simran and this is an avasta when someone meditates and attunes to the truth continuously all day.

The akj difference, which I think you are well aware of is when someone breathes in through the mouth and nose and then vigorously brings the air from the lungs to the nabi (naval) and pulling in your stomach when this happens. Then from the navel with the dhuni of naam pushing your stomach out and trying to draw the air with naam to your top part of the head (7th chakra). This technique is an adaptation of the saas graas technique of doing simran. Also by doing this technique the sound of waheguru is changed...

Also if you ever get a chance to talk to Bhagat kabir Ji's followers (Bhagat kabir panthis) they also mention how bhagat kabir ji attuned to saas graas simran, which is very different to the recent akj method. This was introduced only in the last 60 years by Bhai Randhir Singh ji because amrit sanchaars before this period never mentioned no such tecnique of giving naam like this. This is what I meant is an adaption similar to how yoga and mudras combined with naam were introduced to sikhi in the last few decades by Yogi Bhajan Ji.

What I meant when you see some sangat in akj jumping up and down is that they breathe in so vigorously whilst reciting naam that they jump up and down or side to side. I can show you a video on youtube if you want a demonstration of this movement.

Like I said we should respect all difference regardless they are of akj or 3ho all are acceptable as people have different ways of loving God. If we learn to accept each other’s difference then there will be panthic ekta. It's easy to point figures at others and say they are wrong but this only creates rifts in the panth. Hope you understand Ji.

Waheguru! Nanak Naam Chardi Kala, tere bhane sarbat dah pala

put all this aside...what about their insultive remarks against shaheed bhai satwant singh and shaheed bhai beant singh....what about their dislike for sant ji, the kharkoos and anyone who supports khalistani struggle....they are staunch supporters of india and indira ghandi...that is the only reason i oppose them

[Singhstah]

Uttam Singh Ji, my aim is to highlight how there are differences in the panth and why we shouldn't be attacking others who stand out

So very interesting coming from yourself!

What I meant when I said Guru ji didn't give naam like this was if you read puratan sources or talk to ginai Thakur singh damdami taksaal, Sant Jagjit Singh harokwal and even Sant ajit singh hansali you will notice that nowhere in history did guru ji give naam in that style to the panj pyarea.[/b]

This was introduced only in the last 60 years by Bhai Randhir Singh ji because amrit sanchaars before this period never mentioned no such tecnique of giving naam like this

Bhai Thakur Singh, Bhai Jagjit Singh etc. are not authoritative sources, just because they may not be aware of its earlier existence does not mean that it is not puratan. The very reason you wouldn't find the technique written in full is the fact that only the Panj Pyare are allowed to impart this method, but it has certainly been passed down seena baseena. Gursikhs before Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji certainly japped naam in such a way otherwise a panj pyare which could impart this technique would never have been able to have been formed! And how they did naam jap in such a way was they were taught to do so when receving amrit.

As for it only being introduced recently by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji (the title given to Bhai Sahib by the Panth), I share the following;

Sant Teja Singh wrote the following on the naam technique:

"The method of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) has been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru.

Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'"

I have not read it myself but have been told that Prem Sumarag granth also contains the exact technique.

Also if you ever get a chance to talk to Bhagat kabir Ji's followers (Bhagat kabir panthis) they also mention how bhagat kabir ji attuned to saas graas simran, which is very different to the recent akj method. .

I don't understand what relevence kabir panthis would have to this discussion considering Bhagat Kabir Ji became a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, while they themselves have not followed the footsteps of those they claim to be devotees of. Certainly any technique followed by a different panth would be different to that of the Khalsa Panth.

What I meant when you see some sangat in akj jumping up and down is that they breathe in so vigorously whilst reciting naam that they jump up and down or side to side. I can show you a video on youtube if you want a demonstration of this movement.

Jumping up and down means to lift yourself off the ground. Part of someone moving is very different to this. It is not taught in any amrit sanchar organisd by Akhand Kirtani Jatha to move from side to side, in fact a recent statement by the AKJ Jathedar has made it clear not to do this. What individuals do is another matter.

Like I said we should respect all difference regardless they are of akj or 3ho all are acceptable as people have different ways of loving God. If we learn to accept each other’s difference then there will be panthic ekta. It's easy to point figures at others and say they are wrong but this only creates rifts in the panth. Hope you understand Ji.

Waheguru! Nanak Naam Chardi Kala, tere bhane sarbat dah pala

I wonder does this involve lying about people, trying to give them a bad name?

On a final note I have shown total transparency in disclosing my identity. Given all that has happened previously and seeing a now more mature approach by yourself I once again request that you privately disclose your identity and we do vichaar in the appropriate gurmat manner.

[osingh]

"Yes, if one only practices yoga and does mudras then they cannot obtain God. However if all actions even yoga are combined with gurbani or naam then all actions are of value. I watched some of this on sikh channel and when she was doing the mudra she was reciting jaap sahib (gyatri mantar) gobinday mukunday udaaray apaaray hariang kariang nirnamay akamay. Those are God's name so she was remembering and attuning to the truth."

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This is nonsense. This hand yoga has 0% value when combined with paath. This is an invention and therefore manmat. Why do you have to do mudra (gestures with the body) with Gurbani paath. Tell me one tuk from sri Guru Granth Sahib ji advocating yogic postures or 1 janamsakhi that mentions Guru Sahib doing yoga with paath, kirtan or simran.

ਸਿਧਾ ਕੇ ਆਸਣ ਜੇ ਸਿਖੈ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਵਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਮਾਇ ॥

ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥2॥

( If you learn the postures of Sidhas (accomplished Yogis), and control your senses like this, still the dirt of your mind will not be removed and your dirt of ego will not go).

ਜੋਗ ਸਿਧ ਆਸਣ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਏ ਭੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥

ਵਡੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਗਹਿਆ ॥6॥

( I have also done the 84 Aasans (yogic postures) of the Sidhas and Yogis; I had long age, was born again and again and did not attain company of Vaheguru).

Gurbani has rejected the methods of the yogis. Doing postures is of no use in Kaljug. Naam, Gurbani and Rehit are the fundamentals.

ਕਲਜੁਗਮਹਿਕੀਰਤਨੁਪਰਧਾਨਾ

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਜਪੀਐਲਾਇਧਿਆਨਾ

In Kaljug, keertan is the highest karam (action) one can do.

In the sharan of the Guru focus your surat on Naam.

ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ

This says it all. Gurbani is our Guru and our surat (focus) should merge with the dhuni (sound) of Naam.

Over and over again, Guru Sahib gives us the updesh to focus on Naam, to sifat-salah praise through kirtan and so on. Nowhere does Guru Sahib mention doing mudra and whatnot. This is clearly an invention.

Good work Bhai Singhstah ji.

[xtremesingh18]

So very interesting coming from yourself!

Bhai Thakur Singh, Bhai Jagjit Singh etc. are not authoritative sources, just because they may not be aware of its earlier existence does not mean that it is not puratan. The very reason you wouldn't find the technique written in full is the fact that only the Panj Pyare are allowed to impart this method, but it has certainly been passed down seena baseena. Gursikhs before Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji certainly japped naam in such a way otherwise a panj pyare which could impart this technique would never have been able to have been formed! And how they did naam jap in such a way was they were taught to do so when receving amrit.

As for it only being introduced recently by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji (the title given to Bhai Sahib by the Panth), I share the following;

Sant Teja Singh wrote the following on the naam technique:

"The method of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) has been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru.

Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'"

I have not read it myself but have been told that Prem Sumarag granth also contains the exact technique.

I don't understand what relevence kabir panthis would have to this discussion considering Bhagat Kabir Ji became a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, while they themselves have not followed the footsteps of those they claim to be devotees of. Certainly any technique followed by a different panth would be different to that of the Khalsa Panth.

Jumping up and down means to lift yourself off the ground. Part of someone moving is very different to this. It is not taught in any amrit sanchar organisd by Akhand Kirtani Jatha to move from side to side, in fact a recent statement by the AKJ Jathedar has made it clear not to do this. What individuals do is another matter.

I wonder does this involve lying about people, trying to give them a bad name?

On a final note I have shown total transparency in disclosing my identity. Given all that has happened previously and seeing a now more mature approach by yourself I once again request that you privately disclose your identity and we do vichaar in the appropriate gurmat manner.

VERY well said!

put all this aside...what about their insultive remarks against shaheed bhai satwant singh and shaheed bhai beant singh....what about their dislike for sant ji, the kharkoos and anyone who supports khalistani struggle....they are staunch supporters of india and indira ghandi...that is the only reason i oppose them

If you are referring to the AKJ you are incredibly misinformed, and all accusations you have made are false.

[Consciousness]

So very interesting coming from yourself!

Bhai Thakur Singh, Bhai Jagjit Singh etc. are not authoritative sources, just because they may not be aware of its earlier existence does not mean that it is not puratan. The very reason you wouldn't find the technique written in full is the fact that only the Panj Pyare are allowed to impart this method, but it has certainly been passed down seena baseena. Gursikhs before Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji certainly japped naam in such a way otherwise a panj pyare which could impart this technique would never have been able to have been formed! And how they did naam jap in such a way was they were taught to do so when receving amrit.

As for it only being introduced recently by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji (the title given to Bhai Sahib by the Panth), I share the following;

Sant Teja Singh wrote the following on the naam technique:

"The method of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) has been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru.

Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'"

I have not read it myself but have been told that Prem Sumarag granth also contains the exact technique.

I don't understand what relevence kabir panthis would have to this discussion considering Bhagat Kabir Ji became a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, while they themselves have not followed the footsteps of those they claim to be devotees of. Certainly any technique followed by a different panth would be different to that of the Khalsa Panth.

Jumping up and down means to lift yourself off the ground. Part of someone moving is very different to this. It is not taught in any amrit sanchar organisd by Akhand Kirtani Jatha to move from side to side, in fact a recent statement by the AKJ Jathedar has made it clear not to do this. What individuals do is another matter.

I wonder does this involve lying about people, trying to give them a bad name?

On a final note I have shown total transparency in disclosing my identity. Given all that has happened previously and seeing a now more mature approach by yourself I once again request that you privately disclose your identity and we do vichaar in the appropriate gurmat manner.

I don't know who you are and I don't know what you are talking about but I know your name because you share it on gurmatbibek.com....

Yes, Guru Gobind singh ji was well aware of what saas giraas simran was. But it is not the same technique as akj do that has been modified as I have explained in my previous post. You talk about Bhai mani singh knowing this technique but wouldn't have all of taksaal, nihungs, nanaksar known about this by now? How come only AKJ seem to know this. You got to remember akj was started only 60 years ago? So it is impossible for them to make such claims.

Also bhai teja singh, bhai randhir singh are not authoritative sources. They were not there during guru ji’s time. Even bhai randhir singh received naam differently and then later on he learnt this technique and taught the panj pyarea what he learnt. Ok fair enough about the jumping but I meant to say was it does happen.

‘I don't understand what relevence kabir panthis would have to this discussion considering Bhagat Kabir Ji became a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, while they themselves have not followed the footsteps of those they claim to be devotees of. Certainly any technique followed by a different panth would be different to that of the Khalsa Panth.’

This is your view and I assure you that bhagat kabir panthis would feel hurt in what you said. They have a lot more info about bhagat ji then Sikhs have. Also bhagats ji’s guru was Bhagat ramanand who was pooran brahmgiani. I say go to the kabir panthis yourself and see if this true. I guarantee what you say is incorrect. It's good you read bhai randhir singhs works but you can't just base all your sikhi knowledge on his writings ji.

[xtremesingh18]

I don't know who you are and I don't know what you are talking about but I know your name because you share it on gurmatbibek.com....

Yes, Guru Gobind singh ji was well aware of what saas giraas simran was. But it is not the same technique as akj do that has been modified as I have explained in my previous post. You talk about Bhai mani singh knowing this technique but wouldn't have all of taksaal, nihungs, nanaksar known about this by now? How come only AKJ seem to know this. You got to remember akj was started only 60 years ago? So it is impossible for them to make such claims.

Also bhai teja singh, bhai randhir singh are not authoritative sources. They were not there during guru ji’s time. Even bhai randhir singh received naam differently and then later on he learnt this technique and taught the panj pyarea what he learnt. Ok fair enough about the jumping but I meant to say was it does happen.

‘I don't understand what relevence kabir panthis would have to this discussion considering Bhagat Kabir Ji became a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, while they themselves have not followed the footsteps of those they claim to be devotees of. Certainly any technique followed by a different panth would be different to that of the Khalsa Panth.’

This is your view and I assure you that bhagat kabir panthis would feel hurt in what you said. They have a lot more info about bhagat ji then Sikhs have. Also bhagats ji’s guru was Bhagat ramanand who was pooran brahmgiani. I say go to the kabir panthis yourself and see if this true. I guarantee what you say is incorrect. It's good you read bhai randhir singhs works but you can't just base all your sikhi knowledge on his writings ji.

Well done Sherlock, he also shares it in his signature on this forum.

What you have just said there ^^^ makes no sense. It is a poorly constructed argument, which holds no grounds. Im not wasting my time arguing about it either, cos I am quite busy with exams at the moment, but I felt I should post in this thread when I saw a few comments here- this will be my last say here though.

[Consciousness]

Ok kurban Singh ji. To me it doesn't matter as I believe everyone has a place in the panth. I never meant to hurt members of the akj community. This convo brings nothing constructive so I will not post on this matter about akj.

[xtremesingh18]

Ok kurban Singh ji. To me it doesn't matter as I believe everyone has a place in the panth. But look how it hurts when people question akj. I never meant any offence ji. This convo brings nothing constructive so I will not post on this matter about akj.

Consciousness Ji,

Im presuming you were talking to me, if so.. my name is not Kurbaan Singh, (although it is a nice name)

But thank you for your mature approach.

anyway, I bid you a farewell..

[Consciousness]

Lol you corrected the spelling mistake in your name from kurban to kurbaan. Very well said ji LOL

[xtremesingh18]

My name is not Kurbaan Singh or Kurban Singh. I only spelt it with 2 A's because that's how it is pronounced phonetically. I'm not sure why you think that Kurban/Kurbaan is my name!