Kirtan Is More Important Than Katha

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Katha and kirtan are both as important, however as stated kirtan is of niroal gurbani whereas katha is interpretation of gurbani and also of ithaas.

Its sad to say but in todays age both can be changed and edited to suit an individual, kirtan can be sund of half shabads giving half interpretations, different tuks can be read becoming confusing and possibly meaning different things. Leaving the individual unable to understand what guru ji is saying. Likewise in todays society and especially some of the newer jathas- the katha vachiks have different motives and sometimes do anarth rathet than arth. Therefore confusing an individual further.

At darbar sahib katha does occur in the complex of manji sahib divaan hall, which is part of darbar sahib. And throughout gurithaas guru sahib has done katha or also told wise gursikhs and those of other religions to do katha to the sangat for knowledge. I personally feel, in todays society everything is a distraction from god, even at times the things that are meant to take you closer due to kaljug turn into arguments and disagreements, a kathavachik doing anarth, a kirtani not following raags, doing kirtan to fast to understand, reading gurbani incorrectly etc are all distractions.

Satguru sahib ji mehar karan.

Just to add, whats more important is your surat concentration whilst listening to both.

[chatanga]

Bhai Sahib has not said that one should not do meanings of Gurbani for personal understanding. Bhai Sahib was not against katha of Sooraj Prakash and other historical granths but he was of the opinion that the katha of Gurbani was not done at Gurdwara Sahibaan. He himself witnessed that in olden days the katha of Gurbani was not done at Gurdwara Sahibaan. Only Kirtan was sung or Katha of history was done.

In another post you have posted something about how katha vaachiks build up their personal folllowing to suit themselves. its looks like the same thing has happened to you. Bhai Randhir Singh has no authority to dismiss tha katha of Gurbani. Even worse than that are people using that example, to avoid learning arths of Gurbani. Just because he didn't want to know what Guru Ji is teaching us, why should we have to lose out?

[s50]

The Panth Has given the status "Bhai Sahib" to Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh. Your post sounds very disrespectful chatanga.

Just because he didn't want to know what Guru Ji is teaching us, why should we have to lose out?

Actually your both wrong. Do you research first before you say anything. Bhai Sahib has written about 25 books more telling us what Guru jee is teaching us. Any single pangti written in his books were all done off by heart without any pothiaa or gutkeh. It shows the knowledge and pyaar for Gurbanee to have memorised so much. For someone to spend 16 years in Jail and keep the most strictest Rehat and do great Bhagti under such hardship we couldn't bear. I'm Balhaar to anyone who does.

Anybody who has done Naam Kamai should be respected regardless of Samparda. Your posts are always negative. Cheer up singh! Lifes too short... Great Mahapurakh Sant Gurbachan Singh jee BhindraWala & Sant Kartar Singh Jee have praised Bhai Sahib via books and KATHA!

Another Note how did this topic get to this...?????????

[chatanga]

have corrected my earlier post. thanks bhaji.

[Singhstah]

that is one of the silliest things i've ever read.

So if Bhai Randhir Singh didn't see it with his own eyes, it never happened?

In another post you have posted something about how katha vaachiks build up their personal folllowing to suit themselves. its looks like the same thing has happened to you. Bhai Randhir Singh has no authority to dismiss tha katha of Gurbani. Even worse than that are people using that example, to avoid learning arths of Gurbani. Just because he didn't want to know what Guru Ji is teaching us, why should we have to lose out?

Like I said, there is a difference between this modern 'katha' where one individual sits on stage dictating to everyone, and an open vichar format. Coincidentally just right now I am listening to the shabad,

ਕਬੀਰ ਏਕ ਘੜੀ ਆਧੀ ਘਰੀ ਆਧੀ ਹੂੰ ਤੇ ਆਧ ॥

Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that,

ਭਗਤਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਗੋਸਟੇ ਜੋ ਕੀਨੇ ਸੋ ਲਾਭ ॥੨੩੨॥

Whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. ||232|| (ang 1377)

Notice, that its 'bhagtan', i.e. plural, i.e. sangat not an individual and its 'goshte' which is more akin to vichara or conversation rather than a lecture format. So yes of course we should look at the meanings of bani but my personal view based on Gurbani is that this should be in an equal vichar format. And as s50 has mentioned, there are also other avenues for exploration of Gurbani such as gurmat books, there are also steeks, etc. In these you do not sit someone above the entire sangat (figuratively speaking) and you also leave a choice open to compare, contrast and pick between all other meanings/ideas.There is mention of doing vichara of gursikhs in gurbani, but personally I do not see 'katha' in Gurbani ever meaning a lecture by an individual.

[Only five]

Listening to katha from Gursikhs is a must. But after listening to it, make sure your ego is in check. Many people listen to katha and then all of a sudden they think all the knowledge of Gurbani has come to them.

Same goes for kirtan. And listen to kirtan done by those that don't try to send their own message by doing kirtan of one or two tuks and put in their own understanding in the middle, to influence you one way. After listening to kirtan some think that they are some kind of special person that is so humble. For both keep your ego in check.

It depends all on the person on why they are listening to kirtan or katha. Some only listen to attain knowledge and then show off or purely for showing off. Katha and kirtan done by Gursikhs is there so we don't get lost in ego, but some still do, avoid such people as they will tell you their views and not the Gurus truth.

Whoever speaks the Gurus truth, listen to them 100% because they have left their views in the dust and have given their head to the Guru. Whether they do kirtan or katha, this Gursikh will bring you to realize what Guru Sahib's kirpa is.

[Singhballer]

Listen to the Gurbani katha done by Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkowal Wale, can't knock that in any way

[chatanga]

Like I said, there is a difference between this modern 'katha' where one individual sits on stage dictating to everyone, and an open vichar format. Coincidentally just right now I am listening to the shabad,

ਕਬੀਰ ਏਕ ਘੜੀ ਆਧੀ ਘਰੀ ਆਧੀ ਹੂੰ ਤੇ ਆਧ ॥

Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that,

ਭਗਤਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਗੋਸਟੇ ਜੋ ਕੀਨੇ ਸੋ ਲਾਭ ॥੨੩੨॥

Whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. ||232|| (ang 1377)

Notice, that its 'bhagtan', i.e. plural, i.e. sangat not an individual and its 'goshte' which is more akin to vichara or conversation rather than a lecture format. So yes of course we should look at the meanings of bani but my personal view based on Gurbani is that this should be in an equal vichar format. And as s50 has mentioned, there are also other avenues for exploration of Gurbani such as gurmat books, there are also steeks, etc. In these you do not sit someone above the entire sangat (figuratively speaking) and you also leave a choice open to compare, contrast and pick between all other meanings/ideas.There is mention of doing vichara of gursikhs in gurbani, but personally I do not see 'katha' in Gurbani ever meaning a lecture by an individual.

The type of katha we see these days is not modern. Guru Ji himself explained the arths of Gurbani to the Sikhs in "lecture" style format starting from Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Did Guru Ji say to the Sikhs, gather around and we will have a discussion? No. Guru Ji gave us the best example, and to call this modern, is just riduculous.

The open vichar format is where people like you and me can meet and discuss Gurmat etc, such as this forum is the type of discussion you are talking about.

Bhagat Kabir Ji, was in the habit of meeting Sants and Fakirs and discussing God with them, That is not katha. Listen to the Guru, and look to the Guru for guidance, not a man. If the man is giving you some "teaching" against the example of the Guru, then its best to discard that man. Not to try and prove the Guru wrong.

[chatanga]

Bhai Sahib has written about 25 books more telling us what Guru jee is teaching us.

so what? that cretin kala afghana has written a similiar amount of books. this make either of the authors infallible?

[Consciousness]

It depends as for some kirtan is more helpful for them to realise the truth and sometimes katha is more beneficial for others. But I have noticed that people who only do kirtan and don't listen to katha find it difficult to convey the message of sikhi when others ask them. However having knowledge through katha is vital because one needs gian of what ego, atma, falseness of what my maya is - veechara is a must. You can sing and sing but without understanding it won't help too much.

Chatanga Ji also has a point because what I've also noticed in the panth is that people only read books from one type of author for e.g. some read from giani randhir singh and some from kala afghana etc. However if everyone gets gyan from varitety of sources then it would be helpful as you can easily compare and contrast and find mistakes in both giani randhir singh's work and kala afghana's work. Although I've noticed that people get too attached to specific books and this causes pointless debates.