Kirtan Is More Important Than Katha

[SinghWarrior]

Once again, I have nothing to say until a Gurbani tuk can be provided which mentions katha with the meaning of a lecture by an individual.

This is the logic that Kaala-Afghaani's use. Where in Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji does it say one should take Khande-Batte Di Pahul? Our historical traditions tell us that Khande-Batte Di Pahul is the Guru's instruction. Our historical traditions (see the posts of AK-47 above for referenced Sakhiaan from Sikh history) also tell us of katha being done "with the meaning of a lecture by an individual", as you term it.

[chatanga]

Quite simply, if Guru Sahib himself wrote somewhere, "I did katha"...

Do you think Guru Ji wrote a list of things he did, or traditions he started?

There are many traditions in Gurmat that are not accounted for in writing, that have had a oral seena-baseena tradition of evolving and expanding. Where has Guru Ji written " I have given khande ki pahul"? In Aad Guru ? or Dasam Guru?

[Singhstah]

This is the logic that Kaala-Afghaani's use. Where in Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji does it say one should take Khande-Batte Di Pahul? Our historical traditions tell us that Khande-Batte Di Pahul is the Guru's instruction. Our historical traditions (see the posts of AK-47 above for referenced Sakhiaan of Sikh history) also tell us of katha being done "with the meaning of a lecture by an individual", as you term it.

For fear of going too off topic, I'll keep this brief.

The bani of the second bhai Gurdas (Singh) tells us about khande ki pahul. Other than that Guru Granth Sahib Ji Di bani contains references to deekhiya, recieving gurmantar, becoming a Sikh etc. the particular form may not be written but there is clear mention of the concept of becoming Guru vala. If lecture katha is not in Sri Gurbani, then clearly we can receive param gat without it.

Do you think Guru Ji wrote a list of things he did, or traditions he started?

There are many traditions in Gurmat that are not accounted for in writing, that have had a oral seena-baseena tradition of evolving and expanding. Where has Guru Ji written " I have given khande ki pahul"? In Aad Guru ? or Dasam Guru?

You have a wonderful knack for totally forgetting the context of things said by others. I quite explicitly raised that point in response to your baseless accusation that I do not believe the Guru, now you are trying to argue it forward totally differently. Anyway, I've answered your khande ki pahul question above.

*Wonders when this topic will end*

[chatanga]

thanks but back to the question i asked, where in Gurbani , not in any secondary source, but in Gurbani, Aad Guru or Dasam Guru, does Guru Ji say " i have given khande ki pahul"?

[Singhstah]

thanks but back to the question i asked, where in Gurbani , not in any secondary source, but in Gurbani, Aad Guru or Dasam Guru, does Guru Ji say " i have given khande ki pahul"?

Me stating that the literal sentence 'I have given khandi ki pahul' is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Sri Dasam Granth (yes, I acknowledge this), is irrelevent to any debate on the katha issue involving myself as;

1. I have not disregarded either Bhai Gurdas as an authority, as they are to be taken to be definite authorities, unlike historical texts, and khande ki pahul is found within Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji's vaar.

2. I did say that Guru Ji himself stating he did something as being the only way to prove that that is what he did. Once again, context, which you so love to disregard, is the key here.

Anyway bhalleyo, I have put forward my veechara(n), the point of this topic was to look at the concept of katha and comparing view points, as with most conversations among sikhs it seems to have become something about proving other people wrong, which is a shame.

[SinghWarrior]

The bani of the second bhai Gurdas (Singh) tells us about khande ki pahul. Other than that Guru Granth Sahib Ji Di bani contains references to deekhiya, recieving gurmantar, becoming a Sikh etc. the particular form may not be written but there is clear mention of the concept of becoming Guru vala. If lecture katha is not in Sri Gurbani, then clearly we can receive param gat without it.

If you choose to accept utterances of Bhai Gurdas Jee (the second one), why reject other utterances of respected Gursikhs of history which reference the Saakhiaan of Guru Ji's times (as per AK47's posts)? Bhai Gurdas Jee (the first one) is known to have done Kathaa to Sangat. From these Kathaas, he wrote his Vaaran, of which we now do Keertan.

[just_someone]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

Dasam Pita Ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj talks about his past life in the form of katha in the shabad

Ab Main Apni Katha Bakhano

any ways just shows day by day we fail in his mission to understand sikhi and live by it

Maharaaj kirpa karan

[chatanga]

Me stating that the literal sentence 'I have given khandi ki pahul' is not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Sri Dasam Granth (yes, I acknowledge this), is irrelevent to any debate on the katha issue ...

irrelevant to this debate or not I have got the answer. Thank you very much.

[AK-47]

Examples of guru sahib and gursikhs delivering lectures or sermons or updesh or katha or sakhiyan etc have been shared. Please do read or research them to see whether they happened or not.

The need for katha to accompany kirtan is more important now than ever as we move further from our language and face doubts and challenges from society. Bhai dharam Singh zakhmi was a gem!! If you want anand listen to him doing kirtan n telling the sakhi with it. Pure bliss