Destiny And Ardaas

[Bundha]

Here is a question that arose in my mind the other day.

In your life say you come at a crossroads, the road to your left gets you one job and the road to the right gets you another job.

Now say AkaalPurkh have already mapped out your route to the right hand road, the people that you will meet in your new job all have a link with you through mutual Karam, and through the job you will meet other people which is all tied in with your karam. The karam will effect hundreds of lives and you have to work through the karam with these people, all part of the karm mapped out by AkaalPurkh.

Now here is the thing, if you do ardaas with all your heart and really really want the job that is on the right hand path and you get that job, you will think that AkaalPurkh has listened to your ardaas and you got your job, but, you were destined to get that job anyways, so did the ardaas have any effect, as you were going down that route anyway as your karam with all those people was already mapped out .

If on the other hand you do adraas with all your heart for the job on the left hand path and you do not get the job, because you were never destined to get it because all your karm and links with all those people are with the job on the right hand path, then you will say what most people say “Oh well, tayra bhana meetha lagay” this is God’s will.

Now AkaalPurkh can of course change your path from right to left if He so desires but then all the karm you were to work through on the right hand path will remain unworked but you will encounter people on the left hand path that you were never intended to meet and all that would affect hundreds of lives not only on the right hand path but now also on the left hand path.

So the question arises does adraas have any effect, because you will never know. If it goes your way maybe it was going to go that way anyway and if it does not then you just shrug your shoulders and move on but it was never going to go that way anyway.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

Everything is Prewritten- God is the All Knower, hence he knows your past present and future. If you rise in bhagti, it's hukam and if you fall, that's also hukam.

Doing ardas for something you Want is not respecting His hukam- the path he mapped out for you.. This is why wants and desires have no place in bhagti.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji accepted the hukam for his sons to die, and for many of his devotees to die also- other Gurus accepted the hukam for many worldly harships. True love is about accepting Hukam- loving God regardless of what he does to us- we continue our bhagti full speed ahead regardless of worldly events(whether good or bad happening around us or to us.) The bhagat eventually remains in anand regardless of what happens as pain and pleasure have become one and the same- as Truth(God) is both/ is in every action.

In light of the first line about everything being prewritten, if you do ardas, it was hukam for you to do so- your prayer Is Always heard (regardless of any doubts you may have(any doubts indicate you not having given your head fully to the Guru))- but it was always hukam(destiny) for you to do ardas and for that prayer to be heard.

What happens to us is Always what we deserve according to our deeds(karam). There is no left or right hand road(duality), theres only one road(story God's written for us- no it's or buts of what can or could have been) which is completely deserved- hukam is always perfect no matter how it appears(through the false images and 6 senses of maya) in the worldly maya khel. Our aim is to detach and see God/Truth in All- to see All as One, to remain in truth(naam- all pervading balanced gyan of Truth) throughout everything.

[Singhstah]

Gurbani is 100% truth, we must completely accept whatever Gurbani Sahib is saying, Guru Ji clearly states:

ਕੀਤਾ ਲੋੜੀਐ ਕੰਮੁ ਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਹਿ ਆਖੀਐ ॥

Keethaa Lorreeai Kanm S Har Pehi Aakheeai ||

Whatever work you wish to accomplish-tell it to the Lord.

ਕਾਰਜੁ ਦੇਇ ਸਵਾਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਖੀਐ ॥

Kaaraj Dhaee Savaar Sathigur Sach Saakheeai ||

He will resolve your affairs; the True Guru gives His Guarantee of Truth. (Ang 91)

So there is no doubt that Ardaas when done properly with full faith and love (and not for anything against Gurmat) does certainly have an effect. For famous examples just think to Bhai Bidhi Chand, Baba Makhan Shah, etc. but even this is not necessary, talk to any Gursikhs and they will attest to Guru Ji answering their ardaasa(n).

As for the karams needing to be lived out, Vaheguroo is the all powerful Bidhata (writer of our destiny), there is no point us trying to even contemplate karam, kismat ,etc. with our fickle intellect, Vaheguroo is capable of doing anything in any situation, he is not bound by anything. He can make us live out any karam in anyway.

Here's a sakhi from the sikh sakhian section:

One summer when Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was travelling, he reached a garden where he camped for the day. It so happened that the king's pir (spiritual advisor), was also camping at the same place.

Thus the Pir had a chance to Satguru Ji. The pir called on Maharaj, who seated him with due courtesy by his side. There was a town nearby where a number of Sikhs of Guru Ji lived. When they heard of Maharaj's arrival at the garden, they all flocked to see the king of kings and the saint of saints with offerings of clothes, arms and money, besides food. The offerings were formally dedicated to Guru Ji by his attendants, who also prayed in their behalf for his blessings, success in temporal pursuits, protection from evil, and the boon of Naam.

The pir watched the proceedings for the whole day, and then put this question to Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, "In our scriptures it is said that whatever is destined, is bound to happen. Something else can happen, only if what has been done previously is wrong. Since what has been done, cannot be wrong, there is no scope for anything else happening. So, when the Sikhs pray before you for success in their endeavours, what do they pray for, since nothing else can happen except what is destined?"

After hearing the pir's question Maharaj took out his seal. He applied ink to the seal and stamped it on a piece of paper.

"Pir ji, this is the answer to your question," replied Guru Ji. "Kindly explain this to me," said the pir.

"The letters on the seal were already there. These have not been written now. But the writer knew that when the seal bows its head to touch the paper, the reverse letters will become straight and get stamped on it. Similarly, the Creator has made this provision in one's destiny, so that when one appear before the Guru in humility and performs service, his adverse destiny is corrected. All his problems are solved. This reversal is as per destiny, and not otherwise. Thus, whatever has been said in your scriptures is correct. Nothing less and nothing more." At this answer the pir was very happy.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

"This reversal is as per destiny, and not otherwise. Thus, whatever has been said in your scriptures is correct. Nothing less and nothing more."

:waheguru:

[scooter]

I also had similar question like Bundha ji. i think first of all for changing the destiny , you need to pay in terms of Ardaas and Gurbani or bhagti. Its not always that easy. Like going from right to left. But i think if you go to left then what ever karms are left with people on right Guru Shaib will complete some with your Gurbani you have read or they will eventually come to u or meet u in some other way. its all automatic we won't notice that.

And regarding people on left , they will be new karms which you will be seeding.

you need to understand the karm philosophy for that.

[sabnakeerenka]

Everything is Prewritten- God is the All Knower, hence he knows your past present and future. If you rise in bhagti, it's hukam and if you fall, that's also hukam.

Doing ardas for something you Want is not respecting His hukam- the path he mapped out for you.. This is why wants and desires have no place in bhagti.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji accepted the hukam for his sons to die, and for many of his devotees to die also- other Gurus accepted the hukam for many worldly harships. True love is about accepting Hukam- loving God regardless of what he does to us- we continue our bhagti full speed ahead regardless of worldly events(whether good or bad happening around us or to us.) The bhagat eventually remains in anand regardless of what happens as pain and pleasure have become one and the same- as Truth(God) is both/ is in every action.

In light of the first line about everything being prewritten, if you do ardas, it was hukam for you to do so- your prayer Is Always heard (regardless of any doubts you may have(any doubts indicate you not having given your head fully to the Guru))- but it was always hukam(destiny) for you to do ardas and for that prayer to be heard.

What happens to us is Always what we deserve according to our deeds(karam). There is no left or right hand road(duality), theres only one road(story God's written for us- no it's or buts of what can or could have been) which is completely deserved- hukam is always perfect no matter how it appears(through the false images and 6 senses of maya) in the worldly maya khel. Our aim is to detach and see God/Truth in All- to see All as One, to remain in truth(naam- all pervading balanced gyan of Truth) throughout everything.

Veerji/Bhenji,

Forgive me for my ignorance, but if everything is Hukam, then where does free will come into play? Why are we held accountable for actions when it was prewritten that we'd commit them?

I'm very confused, please shed some light on this!

Thank you

[Consciousness]

Veerji/Bhenji,

Forgive me for my ignorance, but if everything is Hukam, then where does free will come into play? Why are we held accountable for actions when it was prewritten that we'd commit them?

I'm very confused, please shed some light on this!

Thank you

There is no free will. Find out who you really are. 'You' ego actually doesn't have an independent identity - it's all a mistake! Find out 'who' is accountable for their mistakes.

[sabnakeerenka]

There is no free will. Find out who you really are. 'You' ego actually doesn't have an independent identity - it's all a mistake! Find out 'who' is accountable for their mistakes.

Now I'm even more confused

[Consciousness]

Now I'm even more confused

Who do you take yourself to be? Then we will de construct your misidentity.

[sabnakeerenka]

Who do you take yourself to be? Then we will de construct your misidentity.

Vaheguru! I'm afraid I'm no where near your level of understanding of Gurbanee and the world Veerji, you're going to have to break it up for this moorakh sister of yours and explain somewhat simply! I can't get my head around such deep thoughts, only a beginner!

Forgive me for my lack of understanding.