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Sikh Girls Targeted - Intelligent And Well Evidenced Slideshow


BhaiSukhSingh
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Some of the contacts of the Slideshow are bordering on 'racism and total attack on Islam'. Quotes taken from any scriptures or writings of religious prophets, out of context and without any understanding could lead you to taken a negative view of all faiths.

For example, taking quotes from the 'Dasam Granth', as many have done (i,e. Proff Darshan etc), without the full context and understanding of what Guru Gobind Singh ji is trying to say, you could come up with a very negative portrayl of 'women and Sikhi'. opposite to what is writen in the Guru Granth Sahib.

This is a very dangerous game to play.

There is a problem with grooming etc, all communities need to get together and tackle, including many in the Muslim community who are ashamed of the actions of a minority from their community (fanatics).

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Are these slideshows and programs being targeted to sisters already who adhere to Sikhism or those everyday average clubbing pubbing punjabi / Indian girls who arent following any faith at the moment?

Preaching to the religious sisters is pointless as they already know this stuff. The ones in danger are those who get caught up in western lifestyles and dont have knowledge, love or time for religion who often use their blackberries and iphones to chat to randoms. They are often targeted by predatory atheistic or Islam-fascist males as they are much easier prey than the one who has firm faith.

One tactic muslim guys use to get their girls to conform into behaving is often scaring them into believing ie using imagery of death to making them scared of their actions knowing they will have to answer to God after death. Another tactic is pretending to be a non-muslim guy chatting them up then exposing them then in effect scaring them not to trusting people on social networks so easily.

This and the recent programme on Sikh Channel, should actually be aired on 'Brit Asia', the audience that watches this channel are the most vulnerable, i.e. going to gigs etc.

Surley DS Bal can get his brother, who owns this channel can get him to do so.

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ive had a look at it, it seems ok, but there is a factual error in it, about Sikhs which says that a Sikh is only allowed to have one wife. There is no such injunction on the Sikhs about this.

Also there is a painting of full frontal nudity, so this would not go down well in a gurdwara/sangat setting.

.

No..... Sikhs are allowed more than one wife there are no objections to having more than one just the cultural norm is to have one. Some of the Guru Ji's had more than 1 wife.

In reply to ‘Chatanga’ and ‘genie’:

Human's are prone to error; therefore mistakes could easily have been made.

However I cannot agree with your statement that implies; Sikhs are allowed to have more than one wife/husband.

Guroo Teg Bhadhur Jee Blessed Their Su'putar; our Pita Jee, Guroo Gobind Singh Jee with the following Hukamnama; in turn Guroo Gobind Singh Jee Has Blessed us with that very Hukam:

ਸੁਧ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥

Sudhh Jab Thae Ham Dhharee Bachan Gur Dheae Hamarae ||

ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥

Pooth Eihai Pran Thohi Pran Jab Lag Ghatt Thharae ||

ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸੰਗ ਨੇਹ ਤੁਮ ਨਿੱਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥

Nij Naree Kae Sang Naeh Thum Nth Badtaiyahu ||

ਪਰਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥੫੧॥

Paranaree Kee Saej Bhool Supanae Hoon N Jaiyahu ||51||

Roughly (Guroo Sahib Baksh'daen) - Guroo Sahib Jee Have Given Hukam that as long as you (Poot = Putar Jee) have Praan (breath) in your body; consider it just and righteous to have a physical relationship (upon mutual consent) with your Naaree (Wife/Singhnee). HOWEVER; do NOT enter the bed of a Par-Naaree (another/another's Wife) EVEN in your dreams.

Clearly, Guroo Sahib Jee has Stated that a Singh/Singhnee should be loyal and committed in word, thought and deed to the Singh/Singhnee they had Anand Kaarj with for as long as they have breath in the body. Equally, if people are to argue based on context then subjects of divorce, death etc are all a different matter/debateable. However in this context (having more than one wife) your comments (with all due respect) are invalid.

Gursikhs have (well, we are supposed to have) a higher Jeevan than to live 'collecting' wives and husbands - the Gristee Jeevan is the most pure and most beautiful Jeevan any form could have or want (as Bhaee Gurdaas Singh Jee have Stated in Their Vaaraa(n). Arguing that "Some of the Guru Ji's had more than 1 wife" – (which I find difficult to believe or accept) is not only disrespectful to the morals and principles of Guroo Jee but will be harmful for the coming generations who will believe it's "ok" to have numerous relationships - impacting their Spiritual (most importantly), physical, mental and financial state of mind and circumstances.

Guroo Sahib Jee’s that YOU state may Have Had “more than one Wife” – did not have any physical relationships with anyone except their own Mehl (Wife/Singhnee) – for example: Mata Sahib Kaur Jee Who Have Devoted Their WHOLE Self to Guroo Gobind Singh Jee; upon Mata Jee’s Father’s and Mother’s request that our Daughter will ONLY marry You – Guroo Sahib Jee did Bachan that They were already married and They couldn’t marry Mata Sahib Deva(n) Jee – as per Guroo Sahib’s Bachan:

ibrQI kdy n hoveI jn kI Ardwis ]

birathhee kadhae n hovee jan kee aradhaas ||

The prayer of the Lord's humble servant is never offered in vain

Guroo Sahib Jee Said instead Mata Jee could Remain in Their Presence as part of the immediate family/household though that is all that it would ever be– eventually Mata Jee Became the Mother of Khalsa Panth – a HUGE Blessing for Them and ESPECIALLY Us.

As for the comment about how the slideshow contains scenes of nudity; first of all the slideshow does not necessarily have to be shown in the Darbaar Sahib or in a Sangat setting – Guroo Sahib’s Kirpa we have numerous locations where Sikhi camps/classes can be held for this ONE slideshow – with a mature approach to this ever engulfing subject – “risks/sacrifices” should be made. If needs be the slideshow can be shown separately to Singhs and Singhneeyaa; parents can be shown separately etc.

A humble beantee is that there is no point in ‘nit-picking’ or discarding such effort over such superficial aspects. There is a huge threat of our brothers and sisters who are raised in a westernised household who have no idea about their religion, culture, history and values – who are at the threshold of losing their own being, Sikhi, family and life. Surely this effort towards avoiding such a situation is one step closer to saving some young vulnerable girl?

Are these slideshows and programs being targeted to sisters already who adhere to Sikhism or those everyday average clubbing pubbing punjabi / Indian girls who arent following any faith at the moment?

Preaching to the religious sisters is pointless as they already know this stuff. The ones in danger are those who get caught up in western lifestyles and dont have knowledge, love or time for religion who often use their blackberries and iphones to chat to randoms. They are often targeted by predatory atheistic or Islam-fascist males as they are much easier prey than the one who has firm faith.

One tactic muslim guys use to get their girls to conform into behaving is often scaring them into believing ie using imagery of death to making them scared of their actions knowing they will have to answer to God after death. Another tactic is pretending to be a non-muslim guy chatting them up then exposing them then in effect scaring them not to trusting people on social networks so easily.

I agree with you – the purpose of such resources are intended for those families who are yet to take hold of Guroo Sahib’s Charan.

With it being a technological era – this slideshow or similar sources could possibly be forwarded through Blackberries/IPhones – Guroo Sahib Kirpa Karn Kae we need to reach out to our brothers and sisters without coming across too overbearing.

Regardless whether we have positive or negative comments about the slideshow - that isn't the point - the point is this a very valuable source of information that needs to be distributed to our community - after that they have the choice to make a judgement and choose how they live their life.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Jee.

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Maharaja Ranjit Singh had more then one wife loads of sardars did.. main thing was to increase population but we have been unable to keep our history. Look at all the mythology in the world and how people looked after nonsense we had the truth and we can't preserve it.

well ranjit singh also married a muslim? so r we allowed to do this also.

why does Dasam Pita narrate is Dasam Granth Sahib Jee

Every day, increase your love & affection for your own wife; but never, even by mistake in a dream, go to the bed of another woman."

we cant do as what Guroo Gobind Singh Jee done as they was the light of Akal Purkh.

If Singhs and Kaurs r equal are we saying according to Sikhi that our mothers, sisters and daughters can have more than 1 husband?

Alot of people mix CULTURE and religion together and call it sikhi

(Previous post have been done by my sis)

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ਏਕਾ ਨਾਰੀ ਜਤੀ ਹੋਇ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਧੀ ਭੈਣ ਵਖਾਣੈ।

aykaa naaree jatee hoi par naaree dhee bhain vakhaanai.

एका नारी जती होइ पर नारी धी भैण वखाणै ।

Having one woman as wife he (the Sikh) is a celebate and considers any other's wife as his daughter or a sister.

3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੮ ਪੰ. ੩

(Bhai Gurdas Vara)

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That's actually not true. Guruji had only one wife, Mata Sundri Ji, and she bore all 4 of his sons

The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings indicating more than one marriage of the Guru and presented it as a royal act. During those days kings, chiefs, and other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have had more than one wife. This is actually incorrect. In Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding, and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, the engagement was held as soon as the person had passed the infant stage. Even today engagements at 8 to 12 years of age are not uncommon in some interior parts of India. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. A dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at this time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home. Now, the wedding and Muklawa are performed on the same day and only when the partners are adults.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anand Pur, according to custom, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided at Lahore, which was the capital of the Mughal rulers who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore, along with the armed Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of traveling and huge expenses, in addition to the inconvenience to the Sangat, younger and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was 'brought' to Anand Pur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place a couple of miles to the north of Anand Pur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. Today, people are going to Anand Pur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marria ge was celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had reason to assume this because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Panjab of giving a new affectionate name to the bride by her inlaws. Mata Jeeto Ji, because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru's mother. The two names and two functions gave a basis for outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above. Some historians even say that Guru Gobind Singh had a third wife, Mata Sahib Kaur. In 1699, the Guru asked her to put patasas (puffed sugar) in the water for preparing Amrit when he founded the Khalsa Panth. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa. People not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual but not the biological father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. From ignorance of Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of his three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Devan, as some Sikh chronicles have mentioned, had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal was brought for discussion to Anandpur, the Guru had already been married. Therefore, the Guru said that he could not have another wife since he was already married. The dilemma before the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to marry her. The Guru agreed for her to stay at Anand Pur but without accepting her as his wife. The question arose, as most women desire to have children, how could she have one without being married. The Guru told, "She will be the "mother" of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world." The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Devan with preparing Amrit by bringing patasas. It is, therefore, out of ignorance that some writers consider Mata Sahib Devan as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

(taken from http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/matajito.html)

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Some of the contacts of the Slideshow are bordering on 'racism and total attack on Islam'. Quotes taken from any scriptures or writings of religious prophets, out of context and without any understanding could lead you to taken a negative view of all faiths.

For example, taking quotes from the 'Dasam Granth', as many have done (i,e. Proff Darshan etc), without the full context and understanding of what Guru Gobind Singh ji is trying to say, you could come up with a very negative portrayl of 'women and Sikhi'. opposite to what is writen in the Guru Granth Sahib.

This is a very dangerous game to play.

There is a problem with grooming etc, all communities need to get together and tackle, including many in the Muslim community who are ashamed of the actions of a minority from their community (fanatics).

I can see where you are coming from - however tell me; is informing a community in a mature manner of the dangers it has and is facing a crime? Is that rascist? Like the last slide of the slideshow states that the slideshow is not intended to be used as or should not be used to offend Muslims.

It's funny, how Muslim individuals will "quote" fake and diliberately use Thukhs ('Lines') from Guroo Granth Sahib Jee or our history/principles OUT OF CONTEXT to brainwash and lure our sisters/brothers from their Sikhi and family - and no one raises a productvity "eyebrow" - now that some Gurmukh Piaaraa (WSA) has; Guroo Kirpa, put in the time and effort to inform the Khalsa Panth of the sources behind such Muslim individuals' actions and we're all proclaiming 'safety first! safety first!'...When will we regrow the same backbone our Jhjaaroo Singh/Singhneeyaa Soormae had in the 1970's and 80's? Vaheguroo Jee.

Bhula(n) Chuka(n) Dee Maafee

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