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Sikh Girls Targeted - Intelligent And Well Evidenced Slideshow


BhaiSukhSingh
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Guest KopSingh

I can see where you are coming from - however tell me; is informing a community in a mature manner of the dangers it has and is facing a crime? Is that rascist? Like the last slide of the slideshow states that the slideshow is not intended to be used as or should not be used to offend Muslims.

It's funny, how Muslim individuals will "quote" fake and diliberately use Thukhs ('Lines') from Guroo Granth Sahib Jee or our history/principles OUT OF CONTEXT to brainwash and lure our sisters/brothers from their Sikhi and family - and no one raises a productvity "eyebrow" - now that some Gurmukh Piaaraa (WSA) has; Guroo Kirpa, put in the time and effort to inform the Khalsa Panth of the sources behind such Muslim individuals' actions and we're all proclaiming 'safety first! safety first!'...When will we regrow the same backbone our Jhjaaroo Singh/Singhneeyaa Soormae had in the 1970's and 80's? Vaheguroo Jee.

Bhula(n) Chuka(n) Dee Maafee

MY FRIEND ive been sayin it all along too, but unfortunatly we live in a VERY PC world, where if u speak back in accordance of your rights, your deemed a extremist/militant. Unfortunatly our kaum and certainly ppl on this forum is full of hippy flower power brahmin mentality ppl, who think its ok to just turn the cheek like that joke gandhi did.

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That's actually not true. Guruji had only one wife, Mata Sundri Ji, and she bore all 4 of his sons

The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings indicating more than one marriage of the Guru and presented it as a royal act. During those days kings, chiefs, and other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have had more than one wife. This is actually incorrect. In Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding, and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, the engagement was held as soon as the person had passed the infant stage. Even today engagements at 8 to 12 years of age are not uncommon in some interior parts of India. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. A dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at this time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home. Now, the wedding and Muklawa are performed on the same day and only when the partners are adults.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anand Pur, according to custom, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided at Lahore, which was the capital of the Mughal rulers who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore, along with the armed Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of traveling and huge expenses, in addition to the inconvenience to the Sangat, younger and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was 'brought' to Anand Pur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place a couple of miles to the north of Anand Pur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. Today, people are going to Anand Pur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marria ge was celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had reason to assume this because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Panjab of giving a new affectionate name to the bride by her inlaws. Mata Jeeto Ji, because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru's mother. The two names and two functions gave a basis for outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above. Some historians even say that Guru Gobind Singh had a third wife, Mata Sahib Kaur. In 1699, the Guru asked her to put patasas (puffed sugar) in the water for preparing Amrit when he founded the Khalsa Panth. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa. People not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual but not the biological father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Devan is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. From ignorance of Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of his three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Devan, as some Sikh chronicles have mentioned, had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal was brought for discussion to Anandpur, the Guru had already been married. Therefore, the Guru said that he could not have another wife since he was already married. The dilemma before the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to marry her. The Guru agreed for her to stay at Anand Pur but without accepting her as his wife. The question arose, as most women desire to have children, how could she have one without being married. The Guru told, "She will be the "mother" of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world." The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Devan with preparing Amrit by bringing patasas. It is, therefore, out of ignorance that some writers consider Mata Sahib Devan as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

(taken from http://www.sikh-hist...s/matajito.html)

Thanks for this - I have never been informed of this before. It makes sense. Vaheguroo Jee.

who was the great son she gave birth to, and who was her husband?

The Khalsa Panth.

Guroo Gobind Singh Jee are the Spiritual Father of the the Kaum and Mata Sahib Kaur Jee are the Spiritual Mother. Vaheguroo Jee.

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None of the Gurus had more than one wife. Even Guru Gobind Singh Ji had only one wife

Wrong.

.

In reply to ‘Chatanga’ and ‘genie’:

Human's are prone to error; therefore mistakes could easily have been made.

However I cannot agree with your statement that implies; Sikhs are allowed to have more than one wife/husband.

Coudnt you as a human be wrong?

That's actually not true. Guruji had only one wife, Mata Sundri Ji, and she bore all 4 of his sons

The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture.

Punjabis were only ever having 1 wife? Singher 23, what you have posted is a load of baloney from the neo-sikh know it all camp.

Since when was Guru Ghar so into elaborate functions?

Guru Ji had 3 wives as did 6th Guru. There is nothing wrong with having more than 1 wife, and in some parts of india, it is a tradition for woman to be married to more than one man.

Also what one of you have quoted from Dasam Granth, about not going to the bed of another woman even in dream, is nothing to do with this.

Sikhi doesnt limit any man or woman in terms of marriage numbers.

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Wrong.

Coudnt you as a human be wrong?

Punjabis were only ever having 1 wife? Singher 23, what you have posted is a load of baloney from the neo-sikh know it all camp.

Since when was Guru Ghar so into elaborate functions?

Guru Ji had 3 wives as did 6th Guru. There is nothing wrong with having more than 1 wife, and in some parts of india, it is a tradition for woman to be married to more than one man.

Also what one of you have quoted from Dasam Granth, about not going to the bed of another woman even in dream, is nothing to do with this.

Sikhi does limit any man or woman in terms of marriage numbers.

Does that mean I can start looking for three Singhs when it comes to getting married? :cool2: :nono:

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Wrong.

Coudnt you as a human be wrong?

Punjabis were only ever having 1 wife? Singher 23, what you have posted is a load of baloney from the neo-sikh know it all camp.

Since when was Guru Ghar so into elaborate functions?

Guru Ji had 3 wives as did 6th Guru. There is nothing wrong with having more than 1 wife, and in some parts of india, it is a tradition for woman to be married to more than one man.

Also what one of you have quoted from Dasam Granth, about not going to the bed of another woman even in dream, is nothing to do with this.

Sikhi does limit any man or woman in terms of marriage numbers.

I am not commenting on the number of wives of our Guru Sahib's, but are you saying Bhai Gurdas Ji is a 'neo-sikh'?

Anyway, even though/if our Guru Sahib had more than one wife (I have no problem with this whatsoever), this does not mean that Sikhs can. Bhai Gurdas Ji makes it very clear in the tuk in my earlier post that a Sikh must have only one spouse.

If Guru Ji did have more than one wife, there was definetly very good reason for this which Guru Sahib knows, but certainly not for any reason which any normal human being would do so. Guru Sahib also wore a kalgi, sat on a takht, not to mention he is God himself. So to give an example of what Guru Sahib did to say we can aswell is not going to work.

ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥

Dhhan Pir Eaehi N Aakheean Behan Eikathae Hoe ||

They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together.

ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥

Eaek Joth Dhue Moorathee Dhhan Pir Keheeai Soe ||3||

They alone are called husband and wife, who have one light in two bodies. ||3|| (Ang 788, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj)

Note it says two bodies, not three or four or five!

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Does that mean I can start looking for three Singhs when it comes to getting married? :cool2: :nono:

If you really need 3 Singhs, and there are 3 Singhs who are happy with the situation, then so be it. You wont be doing anything against Gurmat or God. Its nothing new in indian culture. In places where women were in short supply (as we will really witness in panjab soon) it was customary more than 1 brother to be married to the same woman, to keep the family going. Even now if aman dies, the 1st person to marry the widow ideally would be his brother, or extended cousins.

.

I am not commenting on the number of wives of our Guru Sahib's, but are you saying Bhai Gurdas Ji is a 'neo-sikh'?

Anyway, even though/if our Guru Sahib had more than one wife (I have no problem with this whatsoever), this does not mean that Sikhs can. Bhai Gurdas Ji makes it very clear in the tuk in my earlier post that a Sikh must have only one spouse.

No, Bhai Gurdas is not a neo-sikh, what im refering to is those Sikhs who think that having more than 1 spouse has a purely sexual element to it and nothing else. So they beleive that Guru Ji was above this and therefore could not have had more than 1 wife. This thinking has come about recently, the panth of old never had issues with these things, but like bhasaurias, one book is read, and hsitory and tradition flies out the window.

Bhai Gurdas has written " Eka nari..." . If this was to mean one woman, wouldnt it have made more sense to write "Ek nari..."

What does the "a" after the ek denote?

Also why this injunction on males only? Bhai Gurdas has written about eh character of a Sikh, but why exclusivley male Sikh?

If Guru Ji did have more than one wife, there was definetly very good reason for this which Guru Sahib knows, but certainly not for any reason which any normal human being would do so. Guru Sahib also wore a kalgi, sat on a takht, not to mention he is God himself. So to give an example of what Guru Sahib did to say we can aswell is not going to work.

If you say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is God himself, then you are going against Gurbani.

2ndly , Guru is the prime example for Sikhs. Whatever Guru Ji did/said is our sikhya. Your argument is one that many Muslims say about Mohammed, who had 11 wives, even thought they are only allowed 4 at one time max. Muslims say that Mohammed was the perfcet man, yet he didnt obey his own God.

If we are in any situation good or bad, then who better to look to for guidance than our own perfect Guru.To say that we can do this thing because Guru Ji did it, but not this thing becasue even though Guru Ji did it, we dont wear a kalgi, or sit on a takht doesnt really add up to me.

ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥

Dhhan Pir Eaehi N Aakheean Behan Eikathae Hoe ||

They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together.

ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥

Eaek Joth Dhue Moorathee Dhhan Pir Keheeai Soe ||3||

They alone are called husband and wife, who have one light in two bodies. ||3|| (Ang 788, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj)

Note it says two bodies, not three or four or five!

Are you looking beyond the words to see what Guru Ji is trying to tell us?

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Whatever man, I have posted my view and have a source to back it up.

Where's your source?

I'll believe what I want to and you do what you want. No need to get angry

What source do you have ? Harbans Singh is an author from yesterday. He has written from a persepective that is prevalent is the panth today. Read what Bhai Kahan SIngh Nabha has wrote about it.

Lets beleive differently then, im not forcing my views on you either. im not angry either.

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