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NamoSarab
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I will listen to those recording, but in the meantime here is what i was able to dig:

It was Mahant Kirpal Das udasi (in whose memory a Gurdwara is situated near Paunta Sahib looked after by 2 Nihang Singhs) who fought side by side with Guru Gobind Singh and was told that the udasi would always be welcome as part of the Panth by Dasmesh Pitta.

It was an udasi Sadhu called Mahant Laal Dass udasi (Pg 6 'Gurbani Paath Darshan' by Sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale) who helped Panth-rattan, Sant-Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji 'Khalsa' Bhindrawale to develop his love for Sikhi and encouraged Baba Ji to become the diamond of the panth that Baba Ji turned out to be.

It was an Udasi sadhu who spotted the divine light in Baba Ishar Singh Rara Sahib Wale.

Sadhus from udhasi samparda always been in puratan sant samaj, there is even picture of sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale in sant samaj with udhasi mahapursh with khole kesh.

You copy and pasting all this stuff, but none of it is referenced to where it came from what page number and who wrote it. Also provide a link to Gurbani Paath Darshan, if you can. But at the end this is about Sri Chand and Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj. Only reason i brought up Sri Chand is because you claimed Sant ji respected Sri Chand for his way of dharma, but Sant ji in his katha of Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars, clearly says Sri Chand is empty. Also Sant ji said Udhasis misintrepret Gurbani purposely.

At the young age of 19 Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj met Sant Baba Sundar SIngh ji Maharaj and Sant ji gave him the peace of mind that Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj was looking for. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj before Sant ji read the Faridkoth Teeka of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, authored by 52 Nirmala intellectuals, he gained much knowledge from this. But the spiritual taste/elixir he was searching for was not discovered. http://www.damdamita...ksaal&Itemid=52

Also Sant ji loved Sikhi from a very young age.

"His parents were devout Sikhs and due to the religious outlook of the household, from a young age Sant Jee started placing a Rumala over a stool and doing Chaur over it with peacock feathers as a child. In childhood he learnt the correct pronunciations of the following – Panj Granthi, 21 Vars, Bhagat Bani & Das Granthi, and memorised the 5 morning Nitnem Prayers. Upon listening to Kirtan, Sant jee’s spirit would get uplifted to some inexplicable inner spiritual state of enjoining at the feet of Satguru jee. Due to the guidance of his paternal uncle at the age of 7 years, Sant Jee was an Akhand Pathee of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

http://www.damdamita...ksaal&Itemid=52

Sant ji's left no doubt on what Sri Chand was. So Singh please start a new thread if you want to discuss udhasis and Sri Chand. This is a thread on Sikhnet and clearing up doubts about Sikhnet.

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Gurmastuk Singh, please answer the question about the statue and why these statues which were shown in the picture are placed at the 3HO Gurdwara? I don't know if you understand Punjabi, but find someone that does and get them to translate what Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj is saying in the two katha i pasted on this thread. I can understand you don't trust what i say (you think i'm out to throw mud at Sikhnet), so please do find a translator who is honest and will not take sides. Then decide with a clean heart if having a statue of Sri Chand at a Gurdwara is correct, among other things you guys do and Gurmat doesn't support. Sant ji has said Sri Chand is empty and clearly showed Sri Chand didn't follow Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj.

Maybe you guys can make a video clearing up why you guys have that statue and the sangat can decide for themselves if they want to support Sikhnet. If truth is what we follow then we should be never scared to say it and never fear the reaction because as Sikhs we stand on truth, even if death is the consequences.

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Whilst Sant Gurbachan singh Ji bhindranwale is without any question bhramgyani mahapursh and a bridge between puratan samparda's and modern day jatha's, one should not consider him sole "authoritarian" on all aspects of Sikh Theology. It's no secret, sant baba gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale is known as "maryada purushtam mahapursh" in the sant mandali, as such most of the parchar he did keeping basic fundamentals of Gursikhi Jevan in mind..there is no conflict there as sikh mahapursh consist of three different natures- danae(maryada purushtam), divanae, mastane.

Although sources above may seem contradictory as its coming from same person (audio by sant ji and literature by sant ji page 6)... But It's quite complex-you need to go back to all the way to - sant bishan singh ji muraliwale and their nirmale influence. They study the literature from nirmale samparda and did parchar, after sant bishan singh ji muraliwale, you can see the transition and see how it shifted from "totally advait nirmal parchar to "maryada purushtam parchar". Again there is no issue there as long as people understand the briqueness(subtle shift), there is no conflict there as different nature mahapursh are sent by vahiguroo at different times for different purpose.

Damdami taksal is upsamparda of nirmale just as how rara sahib is upsamparda of nirmale, they all studied from nirmale, while nirmale are scholary order of the panth, they themselves cannot claim sole authoritian on sikh theology either, as there are others- sevapanthis, udhasi and nihangs. In fact no one claim sole authoritian on sikh theology as its never meant to have sole authoritian because of diversity in Gurmat Sidhant.

I request members not to play bhramgyan card in response to my post as we all know there are many mahapursh in the sikh panth all consider bhramgyanis but still had difference of opinions within them. My post never meant to doubt bhramgyan stage sant maharaj gurbachan singh ji got, my post barely is clarifying on scholary aspect of sant baba gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale.

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Whilst Sant Gurbachan singh Ji bhindranwale is without any question bhramgyani mahapursh and a bridge between puratan samparda's and modern day jatha's, one should not consider him sole "authoritarian" on all aspects of Sikh Theology. It's no secret, sant baba gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale is known as "maryada purushtam mahapursh" in the sant mandali, as such most of the parchar he did keeping basic fundamentals of Gursikhi Jevan in mind..there is no conflict there as sikh mahapursh consist of three different natures- danae(maryada purushtam), divanae, mastane.

Although sources above may seem contradictory as its coming from same person (audio by sant ji and literature by sant ji page 6)

Singh it's better to present the page than say there is a contradiction. First you thought that Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj respected Sri Chand way of Dharma. Then the audio kathas came about and your back tracking. Also what your pointing to as you say, is saying Sant ji learned from an udhasi. But as i referenced to you, Sant ji had a deep love from a young age for Sikhi and then got his teachings from Sant Baba Sundar SIngh ji Maharaj at the age of 19. Tell us what age Sant ji met this udhasi and please provide a link so the sangat can see for themselves. Maybe you got it wrong like thinking Sant ji respected Sri Chand's way of dharma, but he never did because Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars tell him Sri Chand is wrong. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj is not going on what he thinks, but what Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj says and what Bhai Gurdas ji says.

You add Brahmgyani infront of Sant ji's name and now your saying don't take Sant ji as sole authoritarian? You contradicted yourself because we all know in Sri Sukhmani Sahib da paat that there is no difference between a Brahmgyani and Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj, they are one and the same. Therefore if you can't take Sant ji as sole authoritarian on Satguru and Bhai Sahib's Vaars, then you can't take Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj as sole authoritarian (remember no difference). So Singh who else do you look too? This is the dangerous thinking i am avoiding at all cost because it shows really how much ego is in the person and the person is willing to hold the ego as authority and knock down Sant ji.

Also Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj read Nirmale katha on Satguru, but he found no satisfication. Only when Sant ji met Sant baba Sundar Singh ji Maharaj (a proper teacher of Gurmat) did he find peace and was content. This speaks volumes to a person that is wanting Sachkhand. We can learn from many different sources (the school teacher infront of the classroom is not a Sikh and we learn from them), but peace and contentment is only found at the feet of Satguru and those who are one and the same. By Sant ji's example we can say Nirmale are a good source to gain knowledge (but not the only or the perfect source for gaining knowledge as they made mistakes in understanding), but if you want Sachkhand, then you have too get a teacher who is complete himself. Sant ji is the complete teacher so where else do you have to travel for Sachkhand?

The sangat that are not caught up in proving udhasis, nirmale are needed, listen to Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj's katha and you will not go searching else where to teach you about Gurmat.

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Typical black and white response. Missing the whole below point which is in bold in my original post:

Open your horizon you will know outside that there are many mahapursh in the sikh panth all consider bhramgyanis but still had difference of opinions within them

In fact no one claim sole authoritian on sikh theology as its never meant to have sole authoritian because of diversity in Gurmat Sidhant.

I seriously don't want to go through discussion of "my sant is higher avastha" than "your sant"...typical low level chela discussion.

Did you even read what i said about contradiction. I am not saying its contradictory i said it may sound contradictory to some but its quite deep. I will try to scan page. But it appears you have quite bit of time on your hand why don't you get hold of 'Gurbani Pat darshan" at look page - 6 and read yourself...i even gave you the page i m convinced so onus is on you to satisfy your doubts, i m not going sit here and spoon feed someone.

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N3OSIngh, once again im done discussing with you, when you don't want to recognize Gurbani and Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars on Sri Chand, then it's a discussion on who can play smart. I seriously don't want to waste my time with who can play smart. Gurbani is very clear and not ambigous, which some like to put it as, so they can manipulate naive Sikhs to follow their thinking. From Gurbani came Rehat and Rehat clears things up to black and white, which makes Gurbani black and white. Again many will disagree with me and agree with you because majority of people are stuck on what I follow is right and the vagueness let's them do this. Black and white (Rehat) makes their ego come out and they curse Rehat. I left this long time ago and follow Satguru and Sant ji and if i fail then the teaching, katha, Rehat is still right and i'm wrong. No one wants to change to what Gurbani says or even make the effort.

Honestly, discussing with you i end up lower my jeevan because you don't discuss honestly. Next time i'm avoid your post as they just make no sense according to Satguru's teachings and its obvious you don't want to learn from Sant Ji or Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars or Gurbani. I get nothing out of writing post here with Sant ji's katha and Gurbani (won't take me to Sachkhand). It's only for others so they move away from this vague western way of thinking and break through the ego and slowly start accepting Gurmat; black and white.

You're really bad sangat since you take a person away from Gurmukhs teachings. I will not be associating with you in the future.

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Sant ji's left no doubt on what Sri Chand was. So Singh please start a new thread if you want to discuss udhasis and Sri Chand. This is a thread on Sikhnet and clearing up doubts about Sikhnet.

It would be better to start a new thread or continue an existng thread rather than divert the issues being discussed here.

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Nothing is as simple as it seems. People like to make judgements about Sikhs who have come into this lifestyle from a western background with VERY little understanding of them...their background, history....or even any actual 1-1 interation.

The fact is that Through guru's blessing Many people from non-punjabi background have become inspired to life the lifestyle of a Sikh. Majority of them have been introduced to this path by initially practicing Kundalini Yoga and meditation and then later became exposed to the Sikh lifestyle and found it to be very congtruent.

This is the point where i think most panjbais get a little irate over, when they see some practices that they feel are weird. Because these people are not from the same culture or lifestyle that panjbai sikhs are from, so some are finding it difficult to adapt.

Ive always thought that Yogi Bhajans ultimate aim was to bring gurmat to the western world, and he found that in the age of "new age" yoga was something that many people were interested in, and he just used that as an angle to project Gurmat into their lives. Kind of like the gunpowder that actually fires that canon. But if GuruMustak Singh says that the aim is not to create kundalini yogists, but Sikhs, then why not get involved and help them?

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Vjkk vjkf this thread is not really rwquired, as sikhs we should all respect baba sri chand as the son of sri guru nanak dev ji, whether we respect there way of life is another thing.

Neo is right is the sence there are different types of mahapurkhs some being maryada parshotum and others not. I personally went with a brahm giani baba santokh singh ji joti saroop vale whilst visiting anandpur sahib we also went to baba sri chand jis dhuuna on the way and also to astaan of a muslim saint that had met our guru sahibs. Altough i didnt eat any parshad etc, And at baba santokh singh jia dera they have a picture of baba sri chand ji aswell and dhoona in the back of dera. Now all the taksal mahapurkhs used to go to meet baba ji and they were all very very close and baba thakur singh ji referred to baba santokh singh ji as a pooran mahapurkh etc. Sikhi is not simple and blak and white. Kamai is the main thing and love for vaheguru. Sorry if this post sounds odd as its coming from me.

However i do disagree with 3ho mentality and the tantric yoga

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I respect the efforts and achievements of 3HO. But idolatry is one of the fundamental 'no-no's' in Sikhi. It's one of the first things you learn as a child when learning about the faith as its one of the things that sets us apart from Hinduism.

I don't see why there's a need to 'reform' this aspect of Sikhi. I would think by coming into a faith from the perspective that the 3HO followers do, they would have enough humility to appreciate that "Okay, we don't presume to have all the answers and we aren't a law unto ourselves. If we want to be part of this faith, then to follow one of it's earliest and basic rules is a given and not up for debate". That's what I'd do anyway.

But again, respect to 3HO as I remember attending a few of their smagams as a child when Baba Yogi was alive and they clearly had (and have) a lot of shardaa, prem and bhaavna for Sikhi.

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