Why Are There No Women Granthies In Darbar Sahib?

[Only five]

It's good this discussion has been brought up, but what will it resolve? Women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib. The lifestyle of a woman is different from a man's, this is very important to understand. Before everyone rushes to judgement about what is right and wrong. Speak to a Gurmukh Bibi and get her take on this. If her hands aren't free, then you will only get a good lecture from her about lifting your jeevan. If her hands are free, then make sure you're standing atleast 20 feet back. Gurmukh sisters have utmost respect for Satguru and they will never let a ounce of disrespect be directed at Maharaj. You think women are over protected of their young children and go to impossible lengths to protect their children.......you haven't heard a Gurmukh Bibi talk about Maharaj and what our sisters are allowed to do. Many of you with this western mindset will be very surprised.......Just remember 20 feet back.

[Singh559]

It's good this discussion has been brought up, but what will it resolve? Women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib. The lifestyle of a woman is different from a man's, this is very important to understand. Before everyone rushes to judgement about what is right and wrong. Speak to a Gurmukh Bibi and get her take on this. If her hands aren't free, then you will only get a good lecture from her about lifting your jeevan. If her hands are free, then make sure you're standing atleast 20 feet back. Gurmukh sisters have utmost respect for Satguru and they will never let a ounce of disrespect be directed at Maharaj. You think women are over protected of their young children and go to impossible lengths to protect their children.......you haven't heard a Gurmukh Bibi talk about Maharaj and what our sisters are allowed to do. Many of you with this western mindset will be very surprised.......Just remember 20 feet back.

I highly disagree. This isn't western mindset, it's our Gurus that gave equality to our sisters, not "western mindset". Ladies in America had to form civil rights groups to get a chance to just vote whereas Sikh bibis have had equality since Guru Nanak Dev Ji's time, 600 years ago.

The Singhni may be more busy than a Singh, but this is the same the other way around. The child needs the father just as much as the child needs the mother. I know you did not say this, but just to make it clear it is backward non-Gurmat mentality to say a lady is only confined to certain roles and man is confined to only certain roles. There are roles that are realistically split among the male (but they aren't set in stone and can be interchanged among the male/female) and female and the mother usually takes care of the kids more, but that doesn't mean they don't want to perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib. Singhnian can perform kirtan at Gurudwaras just as well, if not better than Singhs, then why can't they perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib?

Related read, an analysis of Charitropakhyan (translated by PJS veerji) :

http://www.scribd.co...lection=2870704

[Hazoor]

To the Singh Sahibs who feel let women do any lobbying they want, (i.e. it;s not the Singh's issue/problem, it's the Singhni's problem, let her sort it out) it should be known that history has shown countless times wrong things/bad things happen when good persons do nothing.

So much for the Khalsa being the beacon of equality and justice in the world when the modern Singh's filling those shoes have such discriminatory/sexist views!!

Mai Bhago was Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bodyguard!, If a woman could do such an important seva for Guru ji a couple of centuries ago in the face of male domination, why can she not merely do Kirtain/Sing God's praises in Guru Ji's presence now (I.e. the same light/person!!).

Singho, the Sikh seeks the light of truth, not the veil of falsehood, fake truths, manmade laws and superstitions. To those who argue a Singhni doing kirtan in darbar sahib will make mens lust go crazy I ask you whether your Guru Ji's way was that of the hermit (to run away from all desires), or the way of the saint soldier who's path is thinner than a thread and sharper than a khanda (i.e. to conquer desires in the face of maya). To those who argue women will get sexually harassed for doing seva I ask you where will you be when this is happening? Typing 'I told you so' on a forum? Where is the Khalsa the defender of the woman's dignity, and where is the Singhni with Kirpan in hand to take care of herself. We must shake the shackles of shame and slavery from our necks Singho. The forces that be have shrouded our eyes with superstitious mumbojumbo so much so that we have started believing it's who we are! Jago!

This is one of the best posts I have read in quite some time :-)

[Only five]

I highly disagree. This isn't western mindset, it's our Gurus that gave equality to our sisters, not "western mindset". Ladies in America had to form civil rights groups to get a chance to just vote whereas Sikh bibis have had equality since Guru Nanak Dev Ji's time, 600 years ago.

The Singhni may be more busy than a Singh, but this is the same the other way around. The child needs the father just as much as the child needs the mother. I know you did not say this, but just to make it clear it is backward non-Gurmat mentality to say a lady is only confined to certain roles and man is confined to only certain roles. There are roles that are realistically split among the male (but they aren't set in stone and can be interchanged among the male/female) and female and the mother usually takes care of the kids more, but that doesn't mean they don't want to perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib. Singhnian can perform kirtan at Gurudwaras just as well, if not better than Singhs, then why can't they perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib?

Related read, an analysis of Charitropakhyan (translated by PJS veerji) :

http://www.scribd.co...lection=2870704

So you disagree that women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib? I only ask because i said women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib. But i don't say this because i use my half baked knowledge on Sikhi like majority of the people, which i was very much part of before....you could say i was the King. Gurmukhs have said Bibian can, so i accept it. End of discussion....no fairy tales of any kind.

The same people that you call anti-panthic, using your thinking, a person can put a spin on it and call them Panthic and you Anti-Gurmat. So who is right and who is wrong? I hope you understand where this is going. I went to a Gurmukh not to long ago and instead of boring him with western mindset nonsense (showing him i know this and that and this is Gurmat and that is manmat according to my self teaching of Maharaj). I understood God gave me two ears for a reason. First reason is to take the manmat idea in one ear and out the other, when i run into the western mindset Sikh. Then utter one word with the one mouth....Vaheguru. Second reason to really listen to a soul that has done Bhagti and has earned the title to speak for Sikhi (is a Gurmukh). I know my post don't sit well with many members here and many of the non-members here. So i gave a solution to these brothers and sisters with the Granthi question. Go speak with a Gurmukh Bibi and get Satguru's spiritual wisdom on it. Obviously I'm a Manmukh, so no point on listening to my reasoning (reason why i didn't give a reason). And obviously they won't listen to a Gurmukh Singh because they will think that this Singh will discriminate. And obviously these western SIkhs don't have the knowledge here. So one solution left, go speak with a Gurmukh Bibi. One reason why no one will....because it means humbling down and accepting my understanding is not correct. And which western Sikh wants to do this....they were told their whole life....believe in yourself.....jimmy you can do it......doesn't matter what anyone thinks......you are the brightest star in the sky......lol....this is not direct at you brother....just a general observation.

Seriously we all need to start listening to the Gurmukhs on questions that we have. This will be my last post on this thread. I'm go see what else jimmy has to say on Sikhi....lol

[Singh559]

So you disagree that women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib? I only ask because i said women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib. But i don't say this because i use my half baked knowledge on Sikhi like majority of the people, which i was very much part of before....you could say i was the King. Gurmukhs have said Bibian can, so i accept it. End of discussion....no fairy tales of any kind.

Okay, I guess I misinterpreted your post. My bad, i thought you were getting at something else.

Not sure about the western thinking part though.

[kullykhalsa]

It's good this discussion has been brought up, but what will it resolve?  Women can do kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib.  The lifestyle of a woman is different from a man's, this is very important to understand.  Before everyone rushes to judgement about what is right and wrong.  Speak to a Gurmukh Bibi and get her take on this.  If her hands aren't free, then you will only get a good lecture from her about lifting your jeevan.  If her hands are free, then make sure you're standing atleast 20 feet back.  Gurmukh sisters have utmost respect for Satguru and they will never let a ounce of disrespect be directed at Maharaj.  You think women are over protected of their young children and go to impossible lengths to protect their children.......you haven't heard a Gurmukh Bibi talk about Maharaj and what our sisters are allowed to do.  Many of you with this western mindset will be very surprised.......Just remember 20 feet back.

Haha "only five" im guessing in your opinion a gurmukh bibi wouldnt allow herself to do kirtan because of her period (something you allude to but dont actually say). Well that is ridiculous as a concept and we as singhs should allow bibia to do anything that we are allowed to do. Being equally doesnt mean that we be equal in only parts it means we should be equal fullstop.

[HKaur16]

Just my two cents on this.

Some people justify women not being able to do kirtan in Darbar Sahib due to the amount of sangat that comes to do darshan of Guru Sahib and the bibi may be subjected to lustful thoughts. However, thinking of Mai Bhago, she fought against Mughal Soldiers. Being a woman she held a sword/gun and fought against MEN. There weren't Muslim women fighting against her she was fighting against Muslim men. How come no one in those times complained and said, "Oh we shouldnt allow Mai Bhago to fight because she might be subjected to lustful thoughts yada yada?" Because Mai Bhago was a Singhnee and no one can dare look at a Singhnee with wrongful thoughts. Guru Gobind Singh Jee didnt think of veiling our women like the Muslims do. Muslim's veil their women because they do not want anyone looking at them with lustful eyes. However, Guru Sahib banned this practice for us. Why? Because if a man looks at a woman with lustful thoughts, he is harming his jeevan not hers. Then why confine women behind this "veil" of do's and dont's?

I think the reason why we dont see a lot of women playing more roles at the Guru Ghar's is because of the Punjabi Mentality. As good things that may be attributed to Punjabi Culture, there are a lot of bad ones also. This is Punjabi Mentality to not let women do this and that etc etc.

A woman's period should not be a reason for her to not do seva. I have heard this mentality before also. That women can't do akhand path this and that if she is on her period. That is again muslim mentality where women are not allowed to pray or fast during their period. God created this system of menstruation. Therefore, why can a woman not sing God's praises, do path from Guru Granth Sahib Ji while she is on her period? In Sikhi our goal is to jap naam with every breath we have. That doesnt mean we cant jap naam during our period etc etc... In fact we are to jap naam 24/7. If that is our Goal in Sikhi then why not allow women to sing God's praises during their menstruation? By the way I know no one on this thread mentioned this being the reason why women aren't allowed to do certain things but it is a mentality that I have heard several times before therefore I decided to address it.

I am a manmukh I dont have gian therefore if I have said anything to hurt anyone I ask for forgiveness from the sangat in advance. Bhul Chuk Maaf.

[JSinghnz]

@HKaur16, welcome to our forum.

You have raised very valid points here. Our Gurus gave equal status to women centuries back

and it is very sad that we still cannot follow their teachings.

[Only five]

A woman's period should not be a reason for her to not do seva. I have heard this mentality before also. That women can't do akhand path this and that if she is on her period. That is again muslim mentality where women are not allowed to pray or fast during their period. God created this system of menstruation. Therefore, why can a woman not sing God's praises, do path from Guru Granth Sahib Ji while she is on her period? In Sikhi our goal is to jap naam with every breath we have. That doesnt mean we cant jap naam during our period etc etc... In fact we are to jap naam 24/7. If that is our Goal in Sikhi then why not allow women to sing God's praises during their menstruation? By the way I know no one on this thread mentioned this being the reason why women aren't allowed to do certain things but it is a mentality that I have heard several times before therefore I decided to address it.

Can a women do paath out of a Gutka when on her period? Have you ever heard of a jatha not letting a women read Gurbani from a Gutka when she is on her period? Can a Singh that has an open wound be a paati in an Akhand Paath? If there is a chance the wound will open up, then the Singh can never be a paati, until his wound heals because the wound can leak through his clothes and leave big stain on Maharajs Palki. Now that is a huge disrespect toward Maharaj.

[singher23]

^exactly. It's not about disrespect to women, it's just to make sure no mistake happens while near Maharaj. No one wants blood everywhere, no matter how small the chance