Few Questions

[Consciousness]

Kaal Jee I'm not going to debate with you like I said but please look into sargun and nirgun a bit more from my perspective so you can understand my posts and what I mean by satguru and baikunth e.g. 'sadh sangat baikunta jai' i.e. sachkand = baikunta here (also understand what I wrote about vishnu - research into those granths I mentioned please because your understanding around vishnu and baikunta will increase i.e. it will help you further in interpreting Gurbani tuks - it's a lot lot lot more than you think!). It was nice talking to you but it felt like you never really read or answered my posts properly but just picked on words and did you own veechar on points you thought were important. Remember we are all here to learn but you need to be open minded in learning new stuff. I've read bhai randhir singh's books so I was very familar with what you wrote but see why I humbly disgree with him. Thanks for your time and responses to my posts.

[Kaal]

Forgive me for knowing and understanding the greatness of Guru Nanak and Guru sahib's humility, which you clearly do not understand. You and many others do not understand how humble Guru Sahib is. I feel sorry for you and others who I have encountered with the same mat as yours who do not understand Guru Sahib's greatness. If a Gurmukh has come to you from Saachkhand and told you different then please tell me?

btw, if you think Saachkhand is not a realm then you are sadly mistaken because me and many others have seen Saachkhand and it is a Palace/Gurdwara outside of the universes but at the same time everything is within it - this is what you do not understand.

[Shadow]

Conciousness, A lot of people will disagree with your thinking. We just don't waste our time in these petty arguments. I understood your posts and I personally believe your view is distorted as you have so much disrespect for guru sahib and sikhi that you don't even know it! I honestly do not understand why people like you are even sikhs. Of course every path leads to Vaheguru, but everyone has to go through Sat-guru (the true guru of all ages) to do union with Vaheguru (true liberation) whether it is here or the hereafter. If this wasn't true, then there would be no need to for amrit. Instead every sikh will only have to follow the path of sikhi without amrit. However, guru sahib has made it crystal clear we have to take amrit. Also, I'm not sure if you have read dasam granth, but it clearly states everyone before Guru Nanak Dev Ji was under death.

suir nr muin jn AMimRqu Kojdy su AMimRqu gur qy pwieAw ]

sur nar mun jan a(n)mrith khojadhae s a(n)mrith gur thae paaeiaa ||

The angelic beings and the silent sages search for the Ambrosial Nectar; this Amrit is obtained from the Guru.

Believe me, I could say a lot more, I’m just not bothered.

[Consciousness]

My aim was not to hurt your feelings but to have veechar with you. You are clearly are over reacting - control your anger bhai Kaal sahib Jeeo. Please do not judge me in not knowing how humble Guru sahib was. Please do more simran and tune into the naam it will help with the anger - I used to overact when I was a little younger but simran/gurbani really helps. Guru Ji has given me partakh darshan and most of my veechar I do is from my experience through living Gurbani - not just from books.

It's funny how peoples true colours come out when they are faced with difficult questions that tests their concepts - do you think guru sahib got angry when people asked them questions? Do you think guru sahib used to dodge other people's questions. Have some respect Veera! There's no point talking about sachkand with you - you saw something else not sachkand - You probably saw indra's realm (Joke lol). Cheer up I never meant to offend you

Shadow Ji I have different views then you but I respect your views as well. But please don't get me wrong I have respect for Guru sahib.

[Guest g_pal]

My aim was not to hurt your feelings but to have veechar with you. You are clearly are over reacting - control your anger bhai Kaal sahib Jeeo. Please do not judge me in not knowing how humble Guru sahib was. Please do more simran and tune into the naam it will help with the anger - I used to overact when I was a little younger but simran/gurbani really helps. Guru Ji has given me partakh darshan and most of my veechar I do is from my experience through living Gurbani - not just from books.

It's funny how peoples true colours come out when they are faced with difficult questions that tests their concepts - do you think guru sahib got angry when people asked them questions? Do you think guru sahib used to dodge other people's questions. Have some respect Veera! There's no point talking about sachkand with you.

please dont insult kaal like that, kaal has not over reacted or shown anger at all! Also why did you mention getting partakh darshan, that seems really egotistical as you mentioned it out of nowhere.

Dude you were the one that stopped answering and said you did not want to go on, it seems like your the one having problem answering questions.

[Kaal]

No one is angry here. Guru Sahib compassionately gives a lot of people partekh darshan. To get jyot darshan is rare. The spiritual state is not one level, it is many, the higher the more knowledge we have.

I wont be saying anything more.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[Consciousness]

No one is angry here. Guru Sahib compassionately gives a lot of people partekh darshan. To get jyot darshan is rare. The spiritual state is not one level, it is many, the higher the more knowledge we have.

I wont be saying anything more.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I am well aware of what you wrote and it's not about what's lower or higher - be content with everything. Nanak utam neech nah koi. When you do get ataman anand you'll see how amazing it is - duality begins to fall - grace is always there available to everyone; sikhs, hindus, muslims etc! The grace of atam anand (jot darshan) is already here - in fact everyone has it but people don't see it through ignorance. Also please read around the subjects I mentioned in my previous post. Thanks

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Fateh! Bhai sahib jeo.

[TuhadaDaas]

I've been following this debate very carefully, alot of it is much too much for my limited understanding so I can't really say what I think is right or wrong. However, 'Consciousness', I think that was bang out of order to say Kaal was being angry, over reacting, or even saying hes showing his true colours. I don't think Kaal has been any of these things and these been some interesting stuff in his posts, and yours too. Please lets not make assumptions about people.

[Consciousness]

I've been following this debate very carefully, alot of it is much too much for my limited understanding so I can't really say what I think is right or wrong. However, 'Consciousness', I think that was bang out of order to say Kaal was being angry, over reacting, or even saying hes showing his true colours. I don't think Kaal has been any of these things and these been some interesting stuff in his posts, and yours too. Please lets not make assumptions about people.

I felt he was.. maybe I'm wrong and he started accusing me of disrespecting guru ji (which I wasn't) and saying he felt sorry for someone who has my mat. But if he didn't say it out of anger my apologies to him but you wouldn't randomly say those words to someone if you get what I mean..