Why Are So Many Moderate Sikhs Against Khalistan

[hgsingh]

???

[RebelSingh]

Well the common thing is coz they dont understand the following things (in my crappy opinion):

1)Panjab/Sikhs were/was/is of a seperate country before british annexed it (and we wud like it back)

2)They dont understand the lies told 2 sikhs by nehru/gandhi, and how sikhs cudda had khalistan in 47', but were sold out by "our" leaders

3)They dont understand panjab has been bullied and discriminated since 47'

4)They dont know that Indian Govt was planning 2 invade Harmandir Sahib TWO yrs b4 it happened, n jus think that bhindrawale was a "terrorist" coz he had weapons inside there (So did Guru Hargobind)!

5)They think it wont survive, coz it doesnt have coastal/sea ports (NEITHER DID MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH, IDIOTS), but there r various khalistan maps drawn up (look below)

6)THIS IS FUNNIEST ONE - It WONT have a military 2 cope with pakistans invasion! LOL!! i aint even gonna go here, such is the dumb nature of the question! (But read the statement below)

http://storerooom.wo...e-mighty-sikhs/

7)They think ALL non believers (hindus/christians/muslims) will be removed from our lands! When in history (apart from partition) did we EVER EVER ethincally cleanse ppl out of our hoods'?

8) Khalistan wud be poor economically coz india will "refuse" 2 trade with us?!? Well 400m ppl in india live below poverty line, is it me, or wud khalistan (with its beautiful food producin lands) actually call the shots on the price, not its starvin neighbours

http://www.sikhiwiki...f_Khalistan.jpg - This is the most likely Map of khalistan (Panjab/haryana/Himachal/Northern parts rajastan)

http://republicofkhalistan.com/images/WEBSITE%20FRONT%20copy.jpg - This is one that i like, but unlikely (includes jammu/gang doab?/western Gujarat/Rajastan)

(I apologise if i dont come across intellectual, im jus a person whos still learning)

[singh135]

Most of them know the stuff above but they want to 'fit in'

[West London Singh]

I'm gonna be quite honest with you all here, hand on my heart I would have to say that the most die-hard supporters of Khalistan I have met are actually monas with hair cuts. Many of these people have unbelievable pride in the nation of Punjab...they are an inspiration. Even myself, although I have no trouble identifying myself as a Khalistani, have to say that I would prefer our independent nation simply be called 'Punjab'.

As for the people the OP call's 'moderates'. From my experience the one common reason most of them seem to give me whenever we discuss the matter is : "Punjab is landlocked" "it ain't got no sea port" "how can a country without a sea-port survive?"

I can only take it that these people have spent way too much time watching titanic and old films about the navy, and not enough time researching whether or not such countries actually exist. Apparently, according to the 'moderates', the following list is an entirely made up list of fictional countries :

Austria, Belarus, Czech Republic, Ethiopia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Leitchenstein, Luxemburg, Mongolia, Moldovia, Nepal, Niger, Paraguay, Rawanda, Serbia, Slovakia, Switzerland, Uganda, Uzbekistan etc etc.

The geography of the average 'moderate' obviously does not extend any further than Ibiza or the the Cosa Blanca

[RebelSingh]

I'm gonna be quite honest with you all here, hand on my heart I would have to say that the most die-hard supporters of Khalistan I have met are actually monas with hair cuts. Many of these people have unbelievable pride in the nation of Punjab...they are an inspiration. Even myself, although I have no trouble identifying myself as a Khalistani, have to say that I would prefer our independent nation simply be called 'Punjab'.

Well WLS, its a fact that a lot of the khalistani militants were monas, sum took amrit later on too, but quite a substantial amount were cut hair like u and i. Regarding the name of the land, i have discussed this on another thread under my previous name, that "khalistan" has been SO dirtied/attatched to "terrorism" by nazi india, that its better to name it something else now, i would prefer Panjab or Azaad Panjab too. BTW wat was maharaja ranjit singhs country called? was it "sarkar khalsa" or simply "panjab"?

[11Gurus1Jot]

Rebel Singh Ji, Brilliant brilliant points you have raised above. You have proved, in a very concise and precise manner that a Sikh Homeland would bring a better quality of life and freedom for ALL people who resided there!

West London Singh Ji, totally agree with you about the Mona having Pride in the religion, background, history, and Nation! I have met loads of them myself! They all say that they intend to take Amrit one day, and I believe them!

By the way, I think the Moderates don't want a Sikh Homeland because they have a slave mentality and live in fear as you have both pointed out. They are happy to be ruled by a foreign people rather than being ruled by their own people, the Sikhs! And these moderates certainly don't believe in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's very own words, even though history has proven time and time again that Guru Gobind Singh Ji's words are true. In fact, history has proven these words to be 100% true (btw, I have yet to find any of the words of our 10 Gurus yet, which are not 100% true). Those words are:

"Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain" (without self rule religions have disappeared, without religion, everybody is finished/trampled on!). Guru Ji also said that nobody will ever give you your rights/human rights, they have to be taken!

It could be said that anyone who believes Sikhs should not have their own homeland, like the Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Jews have their own homeland, is disagreeing with Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself. Which is OK, unless, you call yourself a Sikh!

[pedrorizzo]

Because the Khalistan brand is associated with things that they perceive as negative. For example some associate it with terrorism and extremism. Others view it as being associated with uneducated, illiterate pindus. They often see kesadhari 'religious looking' Sikhs ranting, raving and shouting at demonstrations and think to themselves that its not really them and dont want anything to do with it. Not enough educated, professional looking individuals come forward and articulate pro Khalistan views in a logical and coherent manner. Some people associate it with hardline Sikh views which they think will be enforced upon them if Khalistan is created.

The people who argue against Khalistan argue that Khalistanis dont really have any goal or achievable method of obtaining Khalistan, ie even the boundaries of Khalistan are confused. Some Khalistanis say that it should incorporate territories taken from Punjab at Partition both in 1947 and 1966 etc. People are aware that the present state of Punjab only carries 55% population of Sikhs, most of whom are not practicing. So how would the Hindus and non-practicing Sikhs fare in the new Khalistan? What would be the governance structure, administration, election system etc? Many Khalistanis have differing views about this and many of the details are missed out or poorly articulated.

Another point that non-Khalistanis make is about the economic viability of Khalistan. Punjab is a primarily an agricultural state and highly dependent on the rest of India for trade. Punjab has slipped down the ladder in terms of economic development after the turbulence of the 80s and most companies dont want to invest there as they see it as a troubled and unstable region. Economic models which show how Punjab could survive as an independent nation do not exist and have not been convincingly argued for in a persuasive manner. Many people will have to be convinced that it is economically viable and that the people of Punjab will benefit in some way, rather than lose out.

Pro-Khalistan supporters need to do a better job of explaining why it is better for Punjab to be independent, as opposed to reaping the benefits of staying with India. They need to do more than just talk about human rights abuses, 84 riots, Harimandir Sahib attack and genocide of Sikhs in India. Although these are all good points, these alone are not a sound enough argument when taking about independence and nationhood. People need more incentive that this campaign will benefit them. Moderate Sikhs tend to blame Khalistani Sikhs for causing the human rights abuses, 84 riots and genocide of Sikhs to happen in the first place by taking on the government so they areunlikely to trust and support the very same guys who they think caused all the conflict.

Finally, some people simply dont think that the sacrifice and bloodshed is worth supporting Khalistan, especially if it is unlikely to be achieved and will only result in suffering, death and more economic upheaval.

So there you have it. Some of the reasons why 'moderate' Sikhs dont support Khalistan. BTW these are not necessarily my views, I am simply trying to answer the question that has been posed so please dont bite my head off! I actually believe that Sikhs are a nation and work towards self-determination!

[N30S1NGH]

While I fully believe in sikh sovereignty, I still believe in Khalsa Raj over Khalistan. I believe Khalsa Raj takes precedence over Khalistan (peace of land be it Punjab/himachal/rajasthan/parts of pakistan).

Looking at things from socio-political aspect, all promises were given to us and broken afterwards and betrayal we went through...We definitely deserve whatever was promised to us and acknowledge the foundation of khalistan was laid when darbar sahib was attacked.

But when we look at things from strictly prophecy point of view its Khalsa Raj we are given Hakum by guru sahiban. That should take precedence over khalistan.

Some may argue in order to have khalsa raj, you have to have Khalistan. But that's not necessarily true.

Some may argue once you have khalistan, we would automatically have Khalsa Raj...again not true.

Khalsa belongs to whole world, cannot be limited to one country.

Once we have Khalistan, we cannot assume we automatically have - Khalsa Raj.

Usually after making country, whole other baggage of problems comes along with it. I cannot even begin to imagine that community which cannot even manage gurdwara properly, will somehow manage the country and it be somehow sachkhand with naam abhyasi gursikhs doing only naam/jaap/tap/seva etc etc. Sachkhand is what you make anywhere/anyplace.

I can just imagine in new khalistan, instead of punjab police abusing local it be panthic police and their holier than thou attitude on streets.

However, with all of above being said, we should keep fighting for sikh sovereignty(recent success- The Anand Karaj ACT) and equal rights for all . Being an country inside country- India is not just Oxymoron, its quite possible.

Just like UP or Kashmir, center has very little influence in those state. The reason we let center have influence in punjab because of our spineless leaders and spineless/ stubborn public keep voting for crooks(Congress/Akaali Dal).

Khalsa should leave the head ache of being trans national corporate country based on capitalism to crook politicians and just focus on individual jevan and be true sant-sipahi.

Khalistan = solution to some of the problems panth faces, one step fwd, two step backwards.

Khalsa Raj = solution to all problems as its divine hakum.

[humkire]

Why so many 'moderate' Sikhs are against Khalistan is due to two main reasons, one ignorance, the other lack of love for Sikhi.

Ignorance is to live and exist happily in the false paradise(or hell) of illusion, not sach. These people have no idea of the blessings awaiting us if we can achieve Khalistan. It reminds me of the story of Maharaja Duleep Singh. As the blue-eyed boy of Queen Victoria, unaware and ignorant that he was actually the displaced ruler of Panjab that had been shipped to UK , he once at a country club boasted to an English man that he was the happiest man in the world! However, many years later, when his mother Maharani Jind Kaur was brought to England and was secretly filling him with this truth of who he really was, he then met the same friend and said.... now I am the saddest man in the world!. Sach makes us aware of how much of hardships we suffered at the hands of the Moghuls and how with a million difficulties we slowly managed to rise up to become a nation and how that was stolen from us and how it is waiting to be restored back to us. Sach makes us aware of the strengths we possess that we could exercise to make Khalistan once it is achieved to be a great nation that will help to further the shan of Sikhi and guarantee Sikh raj. Ignorance however spawns inconfidence, confusion and low self esteem.

Lack of love for Sikhi makes us worry more about our mortgages, family, jobs , friends and work than about Sikhi. Those who love Sikhi deeply would easily recognise the value and importance of raj looking after dharam and feel the deep pain of raj having being stolen from us and will daily pray for Raj to be restored to us.Guru roop Khalsa Panth is the custodian of Sikhi together with SGGS and DSSS and hence pangs for raj to be delivered back to us.

As our love for Sikhi increases we desire Sikhi tp spread everywhere in the universe and for Sikhi to have a homeland of Khalsa Raj. In the house of Gurujee anything is possible. ''Sache sahiba kya nahi ghar tereh'' We have to pray , keep our faith and do everything it takes for Khalsa raj no matter how long it takes. Once we have the resolve it becomes a matter of when, not if.

T

[Balait_da_Sher]

How about lack of leadership? We cant even run our own gurdwaras, how will we run a country. Our current Sikh politicians are the most corrupt, who will we follow?